New Order and United Kingdom. — Forum Archive

8 Nov 2001, 11:49

What is wrong with Brits?

I mean, 80% of the people posting on this forum are from Europe, and most of them from Great Britain. But then again, the two most visited New Order websites are CANADIAN (NewOrderOnline) and AMERICAN (World in Motion). And after that? Water Rat's New Order center is AMERICAN and Rich Kernin's New Order discography is AMERICAN as well (with a little swedish touch, thanks to T. Ivarsson). Any other? There is the "Substance Abuse" site (owned and run by a loser who keeps ripping other sites off), which is AMERICAN (and the webmaster has chinese origins). What else? www.bernardsumner.de is GERMAN.

So, if New Order are so popular in England, if they are SO important, how come NOBODY in this WIDE country and great nation ever put up a website dedicated to this band?

Of course, with the Internet, every frontiers seem to disappear and the origin of a website loses any kind of importance, but I still find that very surprising.

Now, the other thing that surprises me a lot is the very small number of american people who post on this forum, if you compare to the great number of them who have subscribed to the site's Fan Club section. Maybe american New Order fans just don't like to post in message boards? Maybe they just like to leech. Or maybe they're just less passionate about New Order than the Europeans are. I don't know.

I find all of this very curious.

Seb.

8 Nov 2001, 12:00

We're all a bit thick over here. rather go down the pub and get hammered than sit around building a website.

In fairness, I think the web possibilities have only become clear in maybe the last 12-18 months or so. Previously web access was too expensive so no one bothered. And it'd take me about 2 years to build a site anywhere near as good as this 'un

8 Nov 2001, 12:12

I think we have a whole different culture brought up around the Order over here. It's far more 'laddy' and the majority of New Order obsessives probably aren't really net-heads. There's about 30 of us in Paris together this weekend, and I think only me, Mr Disco and perhaps Johnny Giles regularly contribute anywhere net-wise, certainly here.

We've also perhaps got more ready access to New Order info via the British media, so don't need such an obvious outlet. When football club hotlines came into vogue a few years back, Celtic and then Leeds, had the highest calls - not because they had the most fans per se, but probably had they had the most fans without access to local media, such is the broadness of their fanbase.

I think non-British New Order fans are perhaps a bit more serious/studious too. And I don't mean that in any derogatory way. AJ Wells is possibly the ultimate pastiche on this. There was a mail on the Ceremony list yesterday about a new American fanzine on the Order, and to me it seemed they were doing it for all the Wrong Reasons. Words such as 'Art' and 'Importance' were bandied about. Things which I don't personally associate with the Order, I'm afraid.

Make sense?

Right, I'm off to the pub (Thursday after-work drinking - a very popular British past-time!).

8 Nov 2001, 12:20

Originally posted by Sébastien Boisvert Now, the other thing that surprises me a lot is the very small number of american people who post on this forum, if you compare to the great number of them who have subscribed to the site's Fan Club section. Maybe american New Order fans just don't like to post in message boards? Maybe they just like to leech. Or maybe they're just less passionate about New Order than the Europeans are. I don't know.

The fact is, there is a new message board on the 'official' american website (neworderweb.com), where I noticed almost only people from the US were posting.

That might be an answer?

_______

8 Nov 2001, 12:32

I was going to do a New Order website but I got busy that day.

:hat:

8 Nov 2001, 12:45

& don't forget also that we do not have free local calls, well not to isp's anyway & so would have to pay for all the phone costs whilst we upload stuff. as it is we have to pay to post messages etc (unless we do it at work - which reminds me - have to go to the pub now as finished work - hey it is a thursday!)

8 Nov 2001, 13:12

To Pitch: that message board at the official website is pitiful. I have been tempted to post there telling people about this place, but it seems to require a registration process that didn't seem worth the trouble.

8 Nov 2001, 13:33

Thanks Pat for spreading the news in this other board - well, for trying to.

I believe you when you say it is pityful; I was just meaning it is actually used by american NO fans, which could explain they don't come massively here..

___________

8 Nov 2001, 13:49

You're right, Pitch, it is used by U.S. fans. My suspicion is they don't know about this place. There was one person who kept asking where she could find GR lyrics. Finally somebody told her she could find them here (along with lyrics for everything else).

8 Nov 2001, 17:16

My tuppence worth (per minute probably): I think Dave H. has put his finger on one point, it is an expensive hobby if you want to do it right, particularly if you want to do stuff like database access and message boards. I have two very basic sites which I've managed to do cheap (not New Order stuff) and it is time consuming and costs me money! Another point, most NO fans I would guess are a harumph "mature" in years and sitting writing stuff about why they love this band may frighten the spouse! Also, perhaps we have access to more info here in the Uk than our cousins across the pond so the need to seek info. is not so urgent. Lastly, those who take NO / Factory and all that stuff seriously have excellent sites like this one and Farank Brinkhuis' (sites coming online all the time for us factoryphiles). Hope that makes some sense but I've been drinking (it is Thursday after all!)

8 Nov 2001, 17:26

I manage a Government inter and intranet for a living, and also have my own web company that produces sites for semi-professional football clubs, so simply do not have time to do a New Order site. Anyway, this one would take some beating :)

Wish the net had been around in say 86/7, I'd have made a mint from bootlegs !

8 Nov 2001, 23:45

I guess one possible answer might be they don't have local phone at a fixed rate like us in North America.

Which means, they pay a lot if they use the internet a lot...

That sure doesn't help.

9 Nov 2001, 02:17

Very good answers overall.

One thing I might add: New Order doesn't generate a "cult personality" the way other artists have done in the past (think of Depeche Mode -- what a good example, or the Rolling Stones or The Beatles for more classic examples). They have a very strong and loyal fanbase, but not crazy followers who would be ready to break into Bernard's hotel room in the middle of the night.

New Order have fans, not fanatics, thus less crazyness around the band.

Seb, who really has to be in England one of these Thursdays.

9 Nov 2001, 05:02

The internet was only recently discovered in the UK. It was found lurking on a computer in darkest south yorkshire.

9 Nov 2001, 07:21

Dear Webmaster, NO are actually quite popular in a place called Scotland, a mighty nation of milk bottle white warriors with ginger hair.

England aint the UK like Canada aint in America. Small point. Worth remembering.

9 Nov 2001, 07:25

Good point G man... it's also worth pointing out, for those who DON'T know, that Scotland also has a president... Mel Gibson.

:hat:

9 Nov 2001, 07:27

Barney sums it up nicely in NewOrder story when asked about the type of fans New Order attract. "spotty students and football holligans" now I wonder which country the football holligans come from, I don't think its Canada or the the U.S. Its not the French as there scared of the Germans, its not the Germans cos there scared of there history its not the Italians cos there just plain scared.

9 Nov 2001, 07:30

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson England aint the UK like Canada aint in America. Small point. Worth remembering.

Scotland? Where's that. I'd always been taught down here that UK=London. That's right innit?

9 Nov 2001, 07:34

To anybody unfarmiliar with Scottish politics......Mel Gibson is not our President. It's actually Rod Stewart.

9 Nov 2001, 07:41

Very good observation, Seb. So many NO sites but none from UK. The cost must be a factor....Everything's in UK must be bloody expensive.... It is good to have informative sites on NO like this, we Aussie fans here don't get much info on NO. Even with the release of GR, there was absence of NO features in the local music mag like JUICE ( I think they're affiliated to SPIN ) or local version of ROLLING STONE....And how disappointed I was to find the MOJO mag sent to down under is the US version with Jim Morrison on the cover!!!Shit...

9 Nov 2001, 07:47

What makes me laugh about the jocks is that if someone makes it big and they are from Scotland then they always refer to Scotlands this or Scotlands that. But if your English and your succesfull then it has to be British. Well im no racist or anti-jock but bollox to it, New Order are an English band not Britsh.

9 Nov 2001, 07:53

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson To anybody unfarmiliar with Scottish politics......Mel Gibson is not our President. It's actually Rod Stewart.

Rod Stuart my fuckin hairy hole!! :smoking:

9 Nov 2001, 07:57

They're both English and British. But hey who cares. I'm not into Scottish nationalism in any way shape or form. I just wanna know where the fuck Crewe is. Sounds happenin'!

9 Nov 2001, 07:59

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson They're both English and British. But hey who cares. I'm not into Scottish nationalism in any way shape or form. I just wanna know where the fuck Crewe is. Sounds happenin'!

It's not

9 Nov 2001, 08:10

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson To anybody unfarmiliar with Scottish politics......Mel Gibson is not our President. It's actually Rod Stewart.

I thought it was Sean Connery....!

9 Nov 2001, 08:15

Originally posted by Lee Curzon What makes me laugh about the jocks is that if someone makes it big and they are from Scotland then they always refer to Scotlands this or Scotlands that. But if your English and your succesfull then it has to be British. Well im no racist or anti-jock but bollox to it, New Order are an English band not Britsh.

That statement is a load of old bollocks! Theres nothing wrong with a bit of jingoism as long as you don't go the whole hog and fail to recognise that other countries have good things to offer too, you English did invent football after all, allegedly! But yes, New Order ARE English. :smoking:

9 Nov 2001, 08:35

We English may have invented football but the chairman at the mighty Aston Villa in the 1870s invented the football league because he wanted some competition for his team. His name, William McGregor and he wasn't English if you haven't guessed. New Order are an English band and you jocks can keep Travis thanks very much.

9 Nov 2001, 08:42

Travis eh? A fucking disgrace. Though probably not as popular here in Glasvegas as they are down south. Thank fuck.

9 Nov 2001, 08:50

Originally posted by Mark Smith We English may have invented football but the chairman at the mighty Aston Villa in the 1870s invented the football league because he wanted some competition for his team. His name, William McGregor and he wasn't English if you haven't guessed.New Order are an English band and you jocks can keep Travis thanks very much.

Mighty?!

9 Nov 2001, 09:37

Originally posted by Muffy > Originally posted by Lee Curzon> What makes me laugh about the jocks is that if someone makes it big and they are from Scotland then they always refer to Scotlands this or Scotlands that. But if your English and your succesfull then it has to be British. Well im no racist or anti-jock but bollox to it, New Order are an English band not Britsh.

That statement is a load of old bollocks! Theres nothing wrong with a bit of jingoism as long as you don't go the whole hog and fail to recognise that other countries have good things to offer too, you English did invent football after all, allegedly! But yes, New Order ARE English. :smoking:

New Order are Engerlish, at worst 'British'. Does anyone here in Blighty ever use the term 'United Kingdom'? Seems prevalent with foreigners, but not with us. People here never use the term UK.