Bells on Who's Joe

Patrick wrote:

Huntsman wrote: Slept in have we Pastie? ... you've missed a minor conflab on mermaids.

Come on, dive in.

Good morning, H. I saw it. Yes, I overslept. Sorry. How's the water?

Tepid.

Outlook fair to middling.

Here's the intro:

The title of the album Waiting for the Sirens’ Call contains an unmistakable allusion to the best-known incident in The Odyssey, when Odysseus (“O” from now on) has himself bound to his ship’s mast and puts wax in the ears of his men so that he can safely hear the song of the sirens, which, without these precautions, would have meant certain death for all.

More generally, WFTSC and The Odyssey are both filled with numerous wondrous journeys to exotic lands.

As has been discussed before, the parallels between WFTSC and The Odyssey do not stop there.

Patrick wrote:

I was thinking, assuming I can put my thoughts in order, that I might do it on another thread, a new one. Do you think that would be appropriate?

A capital idea, Sir. I had been thinking the same thing. As each new branch of research develops, we have been losing site of the previous wisdom completely. Thus the funeral bell theory has not been discussed since the arrival of the ship's bell, despite their being plenty of scope for further discussion.

I am sure there would be no objection at all from the moderators if we were to maintaining more than one thread discussing the opening seconds of this album.

I may start an Ancient Mariner thread, as I am excited by this potential link. I have NOBabe on board (NOPun intended!), she's reading the poem as we speak.

This is going to take a lot longer than I anticipated, just writing up my notes. So, in the meantime, here's a somewhat expanded version (there's much more to come just on track 1, I'm afraid):

Waiting for the Sirens' Call and The Odyssey

The title of the album Waiting for the Sirens’ Call contains an unmistakable allusion to the best-known incident in The Odyssey, when Odysseus (“O” from now on) has himself bound to his ship’s mast and puts wax in the ears of his men so that he can safely hear the song of the sirens, which, without these precautions, would have meant certain death for all.

More generally, WFTSC and The Odyssey are both filled with numerous wondrous journeys to exotic lands.

As has been discussed before, the parallels between WFTSC and The Odyssey do not stop there.

The following is an attempt to identify some of the additional parallels between these two illustrious works of world literature.

Track 1 (Who’s Joe):

This track begins (0:15 to 0:45) with the sound of a bell. An initial possible interpretation was that this was a funeral bell, announcing the funeral of the hero, and I continue to believe this aspect is one element of the bell. However, it was at this point that Sir Big stepped in and made the invaluable contribution of suggesting that this bell was in fact a ship’s bell. This was obviously an earthshaking insight and revelation on the part of Sir Big, for which he is deserving of the warmest thanks and gratitude from us all. How could one dispute the proposition that a poem about voyaging would begin with a ship’s bell? Then Sir H stepped in and suggested that the ship’s bell was summoning O and his men from on-shore carousing to the start of their long journeying. Likely correct, I’d say. In addition, of course, this bell summons all of the rest of us to the start of the journey all of us enjoy in listening to WFTSC.

'Hey Joe, what you doing, seems like its all going wrong'

Would add fuel to the impending doom? The ship is drawing closer to the rocks?

Before we begin icing T1's cake theory, can I please ask for the members to not forget the overall premise, which I feel could have a snowball effect if not dealt with at this early stage.

Who, precisely, is waiting for the sirens' call?

The drifting vessel?, a person (the hero)?, a gamut of non-related chicken farmers?

The very essence of the concept could lie in whether something is waiting, or that someone is resigned to undertake the moments incapable of preventing the wait.

I hope that hasn't muddied the waters.

Sterling work P.

Thanks for the appreciation, H.

A couple of thoughts.

You have provided confirmation, H, that this will be a mighty labor, not a little thing to be whipped up in a few minutes' time.

And I don't think anyone believes, H, that it will be possible, or even desirable, to give an Odyssey-flavored reading to every syllable or every note on WFTSC.

Any disagreements on either of these points from anyone who might be interested?

Well P, I think your last post has poised such a ponderous pontification that you may have unintentionally separated the men from the mermaids.

You may need to be a hero in order to even tackle a response.

Who dare go into the cave of theories, torch low?

Huntsman wrote: Well P, I think your last post has poised such a ponderous pontification that you may have unintentionally separated the men from the mermaids.

You may need to be a hero in order to even tackle a response.

Who dare go into the cave of theories, torch low?

Which part of my post, exactly, were you referring to, H?

And I wonder where DC has disappeared to. Perhaps it's simply that all of this doesn't interest him.

He may be enjoying one of his art house movies P.

I was intimating that the overwhelming nature of the theory may be the cause of the current calm.

I did suggest that the waters were 'tepid'.

Well, since it is clear that I don't have time this morning to complete my full-blown write-up, a couple of tid-bits:

Krafty: "Looking at the stars from underneath a tree." In the Nausicaa episode, O spends a night sleeping in a tree. Moreover, O is commonly referred to as "wily," in other words "crafty" or "krafty." The Trojan horse was his idea, for example.

Dracula's Castle: Cyclops is in fact a man-eater. He devours several of O's comrades.

BS's statement that Who's Joe is about a tramp. O in fact repeatedly disguises himself as an aged beggar.

Ship bells or sheep bells? It sounds like SHEEP bells to me. Still you keep mentioning the SHIP ones. That confuses me.

I'm not sure there are too many sheep wandering around Washington DC NO Bird. Which is perhaps why the Pastry maker has not commented.

NObabe wrote: Ship bells or sheep bells? It sounds like SHEEP bells to me. Still you keep mentioning the SHIP ones. That confuses me.

Yes, Big suggested a ship's bell, and I enthusiastically embraced his suggestion. A ship's bell seems very appropriate in view of the voyaging motif. It sounds far too sonorous to be a sheep bell. However, there are goats in the Cyclops episode, and goats are somewhat associated with sheep. O uses goats to escape from Cyclops' cave.

By the way, if you count Cyclops as human, there is in fact cannibalism in The Odyssey, and under my theory Dracula's Castle=Cyclops' cave.

But wouldn't the bell be more applicable to a goat? - I'm not sure how many sheep have such things?

Edit - see above.

Sirens are all about the traveling so the SHIP bells surely make more sense but I like the idea of the SHEEP ones as well.

a line "but you came in the night and took my heart to Cyclops' cave" could be a small sign of cannibalism indeed

I can't seem to locate the Turn thread - could anybody confirm the 'leaves' lyric please.

Do you mean "the walls are tumbling down, they're falling like the leaves"?

The walls are tumbling down They're falling like the leaves

3 seconds late ;)

NObabe wrote: 3 seconds late ;)

Believe me, M, I'm painfully aware of that.

GOAL!!!!!!!!

Well played Hanksford.

It seems that Liverpuddle is finally back to strength! - probably by the manager's ability to mimic a lightening saber. Why does Stevey Jedi always look downbeat? - he's got a decent set of pins on him (although his hair style is a teensy bit pedestrian).

I hope you took note of the mighty M'bro in Europe. Next year, we fully intend to win the Champions League (of eating parmo's).

Patrick wrote: The walls are tumbling down They're falling like the leaves

I thought so.

But having listened intently I believe the line to be:

'The walls are tumbling down, they're falling by, the leaves'

In fact, I'm fairly certain.

Falling by, the leaves? What is that supposed to mean? What are the leaves doing at the end of that sentence?

Huntsman wrote:

Patrick wrote: The walls are tumbling down They're falling like the leaves

I thought so.

But having listened intently I believe the line to be:

'The walls are tumbling down, they're falling by, the leaves'

In fact, I'm fairly certain.

I don't think so, H. But if you were correct, what would that mean?

Slight update. Still much to be done.

Waiting for the Sirens’ Call and The Odyssey

The title of the album Waiting for the Sirens’ Call contains an unmistakable allusion to the best-known incident in The Odyssey, when Odysseus (“O” from now on) has himself bound to his ship’s mast and puts wax in the ears of his men so that he can safely hear the song of the sirens, which, without these precautions, would have meant certain death for all.

More generally, WFTSC and The Odyssey are both filled with numerous wondrous journeys to exotic lands.

As has been discussed before, the parallels between WFTSC and The Odyssey do not stop there.

The following is an attempt to identify some of the additional parallels between these two illustrious works of world literature.

Track 1 (Who’s Joe):

This track begins (0:15 to 0:45) with the sound of a bell. An initial possible interpretation was that this was a funeral bell, announcing the funeral of the hero, and I continue to believe this aspect is one element of the bell. However, it was at this point that Sir Big stepped in and made the invaluable contribution of suggesting that this bell was in fact a ship’s bell. This was obviously an earthshaking insight and revelation on the part of Sir Big, for which he is deserving of the warmest thanks and gratitude from us all. How could one dispute the proposition that a poem about voyaging would begin with a ship’s bell? Then Sir H stepped in and suggested that the ship’s bell was summoning O and his men from on-shore carousing to the start of their long journeying. Likely correct, I’d say. In addition, of course, this bell summons all of the rest of us to the start of the journey all of us enjoy in listening to WFTSC.

BS has made the statement that Who’s Joe is about a tramp. O in fact repeatedly disguises himself as an aged beggar.

At the start of The Odyssey, O’s son Telemachus goes in search of his long-absent father.

[Much more to come on Who’s Joe, including the sea-monster at the end.]

Track 2: [To come.]

Track 3: [To come.]

Track 4 (Krafty):

“Looking at the stars from underneath a tree.” In the Nausicaa episode, O spends a night sleeping in a tree. Moreover, O is commonly referred to as “wily,” in other words “crafty” or “krafty.” The Trojan horse was his idea, for example.

Track 5 (I Told You So): [To come.]

Track 6 (Morning Night and Day): [To come.]

Track 7 (Dracula's Castle):

Cyclops is in fact a man-eater. He devours several of O’s comrades.

It makes perfect sense.

Imagine that the wall is surrounded by trees, or is in someway pitched in some kind of elaborate garden or area containing foliage. Then the wall crashes down besides the fallen leaves; both tumbled.

I think it makes a more evocative scene, deeper and richer in imagery.

The walls are eroding away, They're falling besides the leaves, decaying on the floor.

Huntsman wrote: Well played Hanksford.

It seems that Liverpuddle is finally back to strength! - probably by the manager's ability to mimic a lightening saber. Why does Stevey Jedi always look downbeat? - he's got a decent set of pins on him (although his hair style is a teensy bit pedestrian).

I hope you took note of the mighty M'bro in Europe. Next year, we fully intend to win the Champions League (of eating parmo's).

Gerrard's misery could be linked to his perpetual bad hair day.

Haven't seen much UEFA cup togger, Are you still in it? I know Newcastle are.

Let me think about it, H.