"It might be our last show ever" - Steve and Hooky´s interview!
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Hank Wiseass© wrote: Do Get Ready, Republic and WFTSC mean anything to anyone's lives? They've written some great tracks since but Technique meant something to a good chunk of a generation of people. By the time I got round to seeng them for the first time, it was a 30,000? crowd, a crowd that's supposed to have inspired a magazine that inspired a youth culture. Do the last 13 years honestly have the same impact on your life as the 1st 16?
Like I've said, Crystal means more to me than anything they did during the Technique era. I've got a billion memories wrapped up in that one track from all over the globe these last five years.
I still fail to see what's so infinitely special about tracks from Technique, but then admit, maybe that's just me.
Blunderer wrote: This really shows your ignorance. New Order were using synths and drum manchines in 81. Arthur Baker produced them in 83. They were big fans of the New York dance scene in the mid 80s. They played at Paradise Garage in the early 80s. They went to Ibiza late 80s. They were one of the pioneers of bringing dance music structure and texture to rock. Most of the early Acid House pioneers from that era quote New Order as an influnece. They were regulars on the Manchester rave scene. Your comments really made me laugh!
My comments made you laugh? I'm not the one reading from the history books without appearing to have the slightest ounce of knowledge about dance music in this country. Arthur Baker produced New Order in 1983? Well, I never. They went to Ibiza in the Summer of Lurv, did they? Again, I'm gobsmacked. You're so insightful. Where did you get this info? Barney attends a party, and this means he's 'influenced' it? Now you're probably gonna tell me Blue Monday was cutting edge and light years ahead of the rest of the field and that no-one in this country had produced a record like that previously? Or that Confusion brought Electro to this country (perhaps six months too late, but there you go). Or Fine Time opened up Acid to the masses (er, a good three months after we'd already had an Acid House no.1 in this country and the top 40 was full of dayglo spaz's jumping on the bandwagon). Sounds like you've swallowed too much of the myth and need a reality check. New Order influencing dance music is right up there with the Curtis 'died for us' tales. Complete bollox.
If you don't like New Order, and haven't liked them for the past 17 years then why fcuking bother posting here and moaning about how awful it is now, and how wonderful it was way back when, in your day? Fcuk me, there's a billion things I liked in 1989 but I'll be blowed if I can be arsed to scan the net to have a whinge about them all 17 years on.
And I'm still trying to figure out what actually happened at G-Mex in the Summer of 87, and then again this year? You've lost me on that one.
NOOLigan wrote:
Hank Wiseass© wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Blunderer wrote: Listen to you all.
I posted about this the other week after the Blackpool show and got slated.
They are finished. Yesterday's Men. They ceased to be relevant after Acid House. Technique was the last record that meant anything. Even when Republic came out they had had their best days.
Shrinking gig attendances. Flagging record sales. Mediocre records. Expanding wastelines.
The sad thing is not that they are quitting now, the sad thing is they did'nt do it 15 years ago before besmirching the memories.
This comes from a 36 year old who has been a lifelong fan.
Bless.
Too many arguments to rip to shreds here but saying they haven't written anything that meant anything since Technique probably sums up where you're coming from. Regret and Crystal have both appeared since Technique and piss all over anything that appeared on that particular album, imho. Which tracks mean anything from Technique I'm still yet to fathom. But if, as you're 36, that's then possibly your first studio album I can see where you're coming from. Sort of.
Shrinking gig attendences? They've just headlined two festivals in South America and sold out two Sao Paulo shows of something like 8 or 9k. They also played to 8k in Brasilia despite the gig only being announced at 3 weeks notice. The recent UK tour was similar in size to their last sizeable UK tour of the 80's - in the summer of 87 - so I'm not entirely sure where that fits in with your logic either.
Flagging record sales? You'll have to remind me how many units everything from Movement to Brotherhood shifted cos even I can't remember. Don't recall those albums making huge dents in the top 10 but I'm sure you were around to correct me otherwise.
Expanding wastelines? (WTF is a waste-line?). 33 year old blokes are generally slimmer than 50 year old blokes. Well. I. Never.
And "ceased to be relevant after Acid House". What on earth is that supposed to mean? And what had Acid House got to do with New Order other than a silly stab at the genre with Fine Time, which thankfully lasted longer than most acieeed did.
Take off the rose-tinted spectacles, now there's a good lad.
Do Get Ready, Republic and WFTSC mean anything to anyone's lives? They've written some great tracks since but Technique meant something to a good chunk of a generation of people. By the time I got round to seeng them for the first time, it was a 30,000? crowd, a crowd that's supposed to have inspired a magazine that inspired a youth culture. Do the last 13 years honestly have the same impact on your life as the 1st 16?
Those three albums mean a great deal to me, especially Republic and Get Ready and the WFTSC single is a modern masterpiece.
Frankly I'm sick of so called fans dissing this most wonderful band. Especially in a thread commiserating their possible passing. I'm not saying that you have to love their entire output, but please stop making the same inane comments at every possible opportunity. Are you sure you actually are fans?
If you want to live in the past fine. The rest of us love the modern Order.
We don't care that you lost interest in 1989. We still love them.
Do you have to stop referring to yourself as a fan at some point, if you think they're no longer releasing life affirming material? I'm probably not a fan in some people's eyes. I've never travelled more than 200 miles to seem them and I've got less than 100 items in my collection. I have been listening to them for 23 years and probably will carry on doing so until I die, just not much of the stuff released after '89.
If you don't care what I think, feel free to ignore it.
But Curtis did die for us! Along with Cobain, Jeff Buckley, Jim Morrisson, Richey Edwards and a host of others...
Didnt you know Al?
I dont 'love' Modern New Order. In fact, i'm pretty much with Mike, the live stuff is much better. Although the gigs this eyar were mostly rubbish because of that same drawn out set list.
The piss ups are mostly good, and the sets always start off excellently. After that... well.
In all honesty, I would be very surprised if they never do another gig. Surely someone will put together a suitable financial package for them. And we'll all still go, including me, regardless of how much i moan about it.
Hank Wiseass© wrote:
NOOLigan wrote:
Hank Wiseass© wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Blunderer wrote: Listen to you all.
I posted about this the other week after the Blackpool show and got slated.
They are finished. Yesterday's Men. They ceased to be relevant after Acid House. Technique was the last record that meant anything. Even when Republic came out they had had their best days.
Shrinking gig attendances. Flagging record sales. Mediocre records. Expanding wastelines.
The sad thing is not that they are quitting now, the sad thing is they did'nt do it 15 years ago before besmirching the memories.
This comes from a 36 year old who has been a lifelong fan.
Bless.
Too many arguments to rip to shreds here but saying they haven't written anything that meant anything since Technique probably sums up where you're coming from. Regret and Crystal have both appeared since Technique and piss all over anything that appeared on that particular album, imho. Which tracks mean anything from Technique I'm still yet to fathom. But if, as you're 36, that's then possibly your first studio album I can see where you're coming from. Sort of.
Shrinking gig attendences? They've just headlined two festivals in South America and sold out two Sao Paulo shows of something like 8 or 9k. They also played to 8k in Brasilia despite the gig only being announced at 3 weeks notice. The recent UK tour was similar in size to their last sizeable UK tour of the 80's - in the summer of 87 - so I'm not entirely sure where that fits in with your logic either.
Flagging record sales? You'll have to remind me how many units everything from Movement to Brotherhood shifted cos even I can't remember. Don't recall those albums making huge dents in the top 10 but I'm sure you were around to correct me otherwise.
Expanding wastelines? (WTF is a waste-line?). 33 year old blokes are generally slimmer than 50 year old blokes. Well. I. Never.
And "ceased to be relevant after Acid House". What on earth is that supposed to mean? And what had Acid House got to do with New Order other than a silly stab at the genre with Fine Time, which thankfully lasted longer than most acieeed did.
Take off the rose-tinted spectacles, now there's a good lad.
Do Get Ready, Republic and WFTSC mean anything to anyone's lives? They've written some great tracks since but Technique meant something to a good chunk of a generation of people. By the time I got round to seeng them for the first time, it was a 30,000? crowd, a crowd that's supposed to have inspired a magazine that inspired a youth culture. Do the last 13 years honestly have the same impact on your life as the 1st 16?
Those three albums mean a great deal to me, especially Republic and Get Ready and the WFTSC single is a modern masterpiece.
Frankly I'm sick of so called fans dissing this most wonderful band. Especially in a thread commiserating their possible passing. I'm not saying that you have to love their entire output, but please stop making the same inane comments at every possible opportunity. Are you sure you actually are fans?
If you want to live in the past fine. The rest of us love the modern Order.
We don't care that you lost interest in 1989. We still love them.
Do you have to stop referring to yourself as a fan at some point, if you think they're no longer releasing life affirming material? I'm probably not a fan in some people's eyes. I've never travelled more than 200 miles to seem them and I've got less than 100 items in my collection. I have been listening to them for 23 years and probably will carry on doing so until I die, just not much of the stuff released after '89.
If you don't care what I think, feel free to ignore it.
Well as long as you post your opinions i think i have right to counter them.
A fan imo isn't somebody who hasn't much nice to say about their supposed favourite band.
Live in the past for all i care. I just don't care about you crapping on the order.
ok shed time. 
fook this thread is really rooted now.
NOOLigan wrote:
Hank Wiseass© wrote:
NOOLigan wrote:
Hank Wiseass© wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Blunderer wrote: Listen to you all.
I posted about this the other week after the Blackpool show and got slated.
They are finished. Yesterday's Men. They ceased to be relevant after Acid House. Technique was the last record that meant anything. Even when Republic came out they had had their best days.
Shrinking gig attendances. Flagging record sales. Mediocre records. Expanding wastelines.
The sad thing is not that they are quitting now, the sad thing is they did'nt do it 15 years ago before besmirching the memories.
This comes from a 36 year old who has been a lifelong fan.
Bless.
Too many arguments to rip to shreds here but saying they haven't written anything that meant anything since Technique probably sums up where you're coming from. Regret and Crystal have both appeared since Technique and piss all over anything that appeared on that particular album, imho. Which tracks mean anything from Technique I'm still yet to fathom. But if, as you're 36, that's then possibly your first studio album I can see where you're coming from. Sort of.
Shrinking gig attendences? They've just headlined two festivals in South America and sold out two Sao Paulo shows of something like 8 or 9k. They also played to 8k in Brasilia despite the gig only being announced at 3 weeks notice. The recent UK tour was similar in size to their last sizeable UK tour of the 80's - in the summer of 87 - so I'm not entirely sure where that fits in with your logic either.
Flagging record sales? You'll have to remind me how many units everything from Movement to Brotherhood shifted cos even I can't remember. Don't recall those albums making huge dents in the top 10 but I'm sure you were around to correct me otherwise.
Expanding wastelines? (WTF is a waste-line?). 33 year old blokes are generally slimmer than 50 year old blokes. Well. I. Never.
And "ceased to be relevant after Acid House". What on earth is that supposed to mean? And what had Acid House got to do with New Order other than a silly stab at the genre with Fine Time, which thankfully lasted longer than most acieeed did.
Take off the rose-tinted spectacles, now there's a good lad.
Do Get Ready, Republic and WFTSC mean anything to anyone's lives? They've written some great tracks since but Technique meant something to a good chunk of a generation of people. By the time I got round to seeng them for the first time, it was a 30,000? crowd, a crowd that's supposed to have inspired a magazine that inspired a youth culture. Do the last 13 years honestly have the same impact on your life as the 1st 16?
Those three albums mean a great deal to me, especially Republic and Get Ready and the WFTSC single is a modern masterpiece.
Frankly I'm sick of so called fans dissing this most wonderful band. Especially in a thread commiserating their possible passing. I'm not saying that you have to love their entire output, but please stop making the same inane comments at every possible opportunity. Are you sure you actually are fans?
If you want to live in the past fine. The rest of us love the modern Order.
We don't care that you lost interest in 1989. We still love them.
Do you have to stop referring to yourself as a fan at some point, if you think they're no longer releasing life affirming material? I'm probably not a fan in some people's eyes. I've never travelled more than 200 miles to seem them and I've got less than 100 items in my collection. I have been listening to them for 23 years and probably will carry on doing so until I die, just not much of the stuff released after '89.
If you don't care what I think, feel free to ignore it.
Well as long as you post your opinions i think i have right to counter them.
A fan imo isn't somebody who hasn't much nice to say about their supposed favourite band.
Live in the past for all i care. I just don't care about you crapping on the order.
ok shed time.
fook this thread is really rooted now.
What opinions have you actually countered? You sound like a precious fan boy to me. I make a general point that New Order were once influential on people who went onto be influential themselves and you counter it with, 'well I liked them albums'. Sheesh I'm sure that's a cultural legacy right up there with their God-like genius award. I'd hardly say I've crapped on them either. Releasing Jetstream has done more to crap on their legacy than I could ever manage.
I dont think it makes any difference if they call it a day. They have had they best moments,and is it really worth them carrying on another 5 years in case they write another Crystal or Regret? No,is it fuck. They should just give us a huge 20 disc boxset of what we want then fuck off to live their lives how they want-they've done what no-one else can,got nothing to prove and have done it all their way.
steveone wrote: I dont think it makes any difference if they call it a day. They have had they best moments,and is it really worth them carrying on another 5 years in case they write another Crystal or Regret? No,is it fuck. They should just give us a huge 20 disc boxset of what we want then fuck off to live their lives how they want-they've done what no-one else can,got nothing to prove and have done it all their way.
People keep using the word 'they' out of context here, surely?
As if it's New Order here who are possibly calling it a day as a collective decision.
Which probably isn't the case at all, now is it? And any future cessation of activity is more likely down to an individual than as a group united. You know, I'm just saying.. . .
Uncle Liam wrote: But Curtis did die for us! Along with Cobain, Jeff Buckley, Jim Morrisson, Richey Edwards and a host of others...
Didnt you know Al?
Richey Edwards is ... is dead?! 
"Precious fan boy" is exactly right.
You have to grow up.
New Order are now just another ageing rock act. Once brilliant. Now no longer.
I was a fan, now I am a grown man who is not a "fan" of any group.
And I stand by what I said. They are no longer important to the music scene. They no longer break any ground or do anything new.
Gig attendances are right down.
Record sales are right down.
They are 50 years old and should be making their living elsewhere.
Live with it, Fan Boy, and stop being so teenage about the whole thing.
steveone wrote: I dont think it makes any difference if they call it a day. They have had they best moments,and is it really worth them carrying on another 5 years in case they write another Crystal or Regret? No,is it fuck. They should just give us a huge 20 disc boxset of what we want then fuck off to live their lives how they want-they've done what no-one else can,got nothing to prove and have done it all their way.
My sentiments exactly.
i wish someone would invent one of them time travel machines, so we could all go back in time and watch them in their yoof.
ahhhh....fuck that. i'd rather watch the 1979 and 1987 Liverpool team again.
Blunderer wrote: "Precious fan boy" is exactly right.
You have to grow up.
New Order are now just another ageing rock act. Once brilliant. Now no longer.
I was a fan, now I am a grown man who is not a "fan" of any group.
And I stand by what I said. They are no longer important to the music scene. They no longer break any ground or do anything new.
Gig attendances are right down.
Record sales are right down.
They are 50 years old and should be making their living elsewhere.
Live with it, Fan Boy, and stop being so teenage about the whole thing.
"Precious Fan Boy"?!
Are the other widdle childern in the playground bullying you cos their bands are bigger and better than yours now? Bless.
Prick.
J.A.K wrote: i wish someone would invent one of them time travel machines, so we could all go back in time and watch them in their yoof.
And then all we'd do is fcuking moan about them anyways!!
What the fcuk's this gay-disco music? Why don't they talk to the audience? Why have they turned their backs on us? Where's the fcuking encore?
Etc et cetera. 
They may not be as great as they once were, but they are still influencing people and making great music. My mum (who I subjected to endless NO between 1991 & 2000) has now just started getting into them - at 60!
To say they are no longer influencing (ok, I know you mmeant bands) is ridiculous
El Jarvo wrote:
J.A.K wrote: i wish someone would invent one of them time travel machines, so we could all go back in time and watch them in their yoof.
And then all we'd do is fcuking moan about them anyways!!
What the fcuk's this gay-disco music? Why don't they talk to the audience? Why have they turned their backs on us? Where's the fcuking encore?
Etc et cetera.
spot on. we'll never be happy regardless.
before Republic, i thought that was it. but they still plod on.
time fuckin flies. that's the main problem.
i wish i was still in the Cubs.
El Jarvo wrote:
Blunderer wrote: "Precious fan boy" is exactly right.
You have to grow up.
New Order are now just another ageing rock act. Once brilliant. Now no longer.
I was a fan, now I am a grown man who is not a "fan" of any group.
And I stand by what I said. They are no longer important to the music scene. They no longer break any ground or do anything new.
Gig attendances are right down.
Record sales are right down.
They are 50 years old and should be making their living elsewhere.
Live with it, Fan Boy, and stop being so teenage about the whole thing.
"Precious Fan Boy"?!
Are the other widdle childern in the playground bullying you cos their bands are bigger and better than yours now? Bless.
Prick.
Good counter-argument there, FB. :D
You cleanly and cuttingly addressed all my points one by one. I seem to remember you said you would tear my arguments to pieces - well you certainly did that, didn't you?
Try no to get too upset - I know they are your heroes, but it is not personal.
Guilty Partner wrote: They may not be as great as they once were, but they are still influencing people and making great music. My mum (who I subjected to endless NO between 1991 & 2000) has now just started getting into them - at 60!
To say they are no longer influencing (ok, I know you mmeant bands) is ridiculous
So your mum is getting into them?
God, I was wrong, they are still cutting edge after all!
El Jarvo wrote:
Uncle Liam wrote: But Curtis did die for us! Along with Cobain, Jeff Buckley, Jim Morrisson, Richey Edwards and a host of others...
Didnt you know Al?
Richey Edwards is ... is dead?!
Thats what i was told. I thought he was working as an Insurance Clerk in Rotherham. 
Blunderer wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Blunderer wrote: "Precious fan boy" is exactly right.
You have to grow up.
New Order are now just another ageing rock act. Once brilliant. Now no longer.
I was a fan, now I am a grown man who is not a "fan" of any group.
And I stand by what I said. They are no longer important to the music scene. They no longer break any ground or do anything new.
Gig attendances are right down.
Record sales are right down.
They are 50 years old and should be making their living elsewhere.
Live with it, Fan Boy, and stop being so teenage about the whole thing.
"Precious Fan Boy"?!
Are the other widdle childern in the playground bullying you cos their bands are bigger and better than yours now? Bless.
Prick.
Good counter-argument there, FB. :D
You cleanly and cuttingly addressed all my points one by one. I seem to remember you said you would tear my arguments to pieces - well you certainly did that, didn't you?
Try no to get too upset - I know they are your heroes, but it is not personal.
Actually, your arguements seem to be - (1) the past is good, (2) the present is bad. Not much more brevity than that.
And you've still not stated what went on at G-Mex in the Summer of 87, and earlier this year? Certainly nothing New Order related that I can think of?
You're just flaming this forum for fun, and I claim my £40.
Oh, and 'precious fan boy' seems far more applicable to you than anyone else who's posted on this forum. Cos you're now dead upset and grumpy that your band ain't doing the stuff you're happy with. So you're throwing your toys out of the pram. Though, what sort of prick falls in love with something just cos someone else told him it was cool twenty years ago really does need the proverbial rocket up his arse at 36 years of age. Or a good wake-up call at the very least.
Uncle Liam wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Uncle Liam wrote: But Curtis did die for us! Along with Cobain, Jeff Buckley, Jim Morrisson, Richey Edwards and a host of others...
Didnt you know Al?
Richey Edwards is ... is dead?!
Thats what i was told. I thought he was working as an Insurance Clerk in Rotherham.
Nah, he's working a tie-dye stall on Anjuna Beach in Goa.
A workmate of mine knews someone who knows someone who thought he saw him there last Christmas.
Or perhaps it was just some other prick who was self-harming?
Guilty Partner wrote: They may not be as great as they once were, but they are still influencing people and making great music. My mum (who I subjected to endless NO between 1991 & 2000) has now just started getting into them - at 60!
To say they are no longer influencing (ok, I know you mmeant bands) is ridiculous
Says it all!
*shakes head
It goes to show their range of appeal.
Blunderer wrote:
Guilty Partner wrote: They may not be as great as they once were, but they are still influencing people and making great music. My mum (who I subjected to endless NO between 1991 & 2000) has now just started getting into them - at 60!
To say they are no longer influencing (ok, I know you mmeant bands) is ridiculous
So your mum is getting into them?
God, I was wrong, they are still cutting edge after all!
I don't often post here, but felt compelled to respond to Blunderer's point:
"And I stand by what I said. They are no longer important to the music scene. They no longer break any ground or do anything new."
Does this mean that any band that are no longer important to the music scene (how on earth do you gauge importance??), and that any band that doesn't break any ground or do anything new, simply isn't allowed to make music any more!!?!?
Surely that make the iTunes online store virtually empty!!
(Seeing as you're obsessed with statistical analysis of an artform, if your rules apply, then the Top40 WOULD be empty)
Bloody 'ell, this is entertaining!
I feel quite shallow in my opinions: enjoying NO, enjoying the gigs and enjoying the company of the people who like them too. I could build up a decent argument about which song/album/gig is best/better/worse, but maybe the enthusiasm for that is a male domain! I accept that what ever people do in their 20's is usually more ground breaking than in their 40's/50's and that'll do for me!
Interesting to read the 'debate' though nevertheless!
J.A.K wrote: i wish someone would invent one of them time travel machines, so we could all go back in time and watch them in their yoof.
ahhhh....fuck that. i'd rather watch the 1979 and 1987 Liverpool team again.
fcuk THAT I WAS MARRIED AND had a STeaDY job!No fcuking chance i want THAT! 
Ness Order wrote: I feel quite shallow in my opinions: enjoying NO, enjoying the gigs and enjoying the company of the people who like them too.
Exactly, music is subjective.
You don't have to give a checklist as to why you do/don't or should/shouldn't like it. Same way as you don't have to explain why you've painted yer living room the colour you've got it, or have to bullet point the reasons you're in love with the person you share your life with. Everything is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
People shouldn't listen to stuff just cos the NME told them to, or cos they heard it influenced someone else who was maybe hip. Or just cos that band sell out multiple stadium tours. And they certainly shouldn't stop listening to music just because the lead singer is fatter than he was 25 years ago.
El Jarvo wrote:
Ness Order wrote: I feel quite shallow in my opinions: enjoying NO, enjoying the gigs and enjoying the company of the people who like them too.
Exactly, music is subjective.
You don't have to give a checklist as to why you do/don't or should/shouldn't like it. Same way as you don't have to explain why you've painted yer living room the colour you've got it, or have to bullet point the reasons you're in love with the person you share your life with. Everything is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
People shouldn't listen to stuff just cos the NME told them to, or cos they heard it influenced someone else who was maybe hip. Or just cos that band sell out multiple stadium tours. And they certainly shouldn't stop listening to music just because the lead singer is fatter than he was 25 years ago.
:) Spot on!
