"It might be our last show ever" - Steve and Hooky´s interview!
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And can i just say that at 48 i am STILL trying for a BETTER more MEANINGFUL life.But i get by doing the same old CRAP i always DID.Why should NEW ORDER not just do what they want to do?I wish em well either collectively or as individuals.I just miss 12 inch COVERS! 
ROCKET MICK wrote: And can i just say that at 48 i am STILL trying for a BETTER more MEANINGFUL life.But i get by doing the same old CRAP i always DID.Why should NEW ORDER not just do what they want to do?I wish em well either collectively or as individuals.I just miss 12 inch COVERS!
Brilliantly said! Now get back to your dusting it's very meaningful!
El Jarvo wrote:
Ness Order wrote: I feel quite shallow in my opinions: enjoying NO, enjoying the gigs and enjoying the company of the people who like them too.
Exactly, music is subjective.
You don't have to give a checklist as to why you do/don't or should/shouldn't like it. Same way as you don't have to explain why you've painted yer living room the colour you've got it, or have to bullet point the reasons you're in love with the person you share your life with. Everything is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
People shouldn't listen to stuff just cos the NME told them to, or cos they heard it influenced someone else who was maybe hip. Or just cos that band sell out multiple stadium tours. And they certainly shouldn't stop listening to music just because the lead singer is fatter than he was 25 years ago.
Plus some of us prefer the chunky look on a man
El Jarvo wrote:
Blunderer wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Blunderer wrote: "Precious fan boy" is exactly right.
You have to grow up.
New Order are now just another ageing rock act. Once brilliant. Now no longer.
I was a fan, now I am a grown man who is not a "fan" of any group.
And I stand by what I said. They are no longer important to the music scene. They no longer break any ground or do anything new.
Gig attendances are right down.
Record sales are right down.
They are 50 years old and should be making their living elsewhere.
Live with it, Fan Boy, and stop being so teenage about the whole thing.
"Precious Fan Boy"?!
Are the other widdle childern in the playground bullying you cos their bands are bigger and better than yours now? Bless.
Prick.
Good counter-argument there, FB. :D
You cleanly and cuttingly addressed all my points one by one. I seem to remember you said you would tear my arguments to pieces - well you certainly did that, didn't you?
Try no to get too upset - I know they are your heroes, but it is not personal.
Actually, your arguements seem to be - (1) the past is good, (2) the present is bad. Not much more brevity than that.
No, read again. My argument is that New Order's past is good and their present is bad. A world of difference to what you have put. There are plenty of bands out there now at the cutting edge. But New Order are not one of them.
And you've still not stated what went on at G-Mex in the Summer of 87, and earlier this year? Certainly nothing New Order related that I can think of?
Well, trainspotter, it may have been 88 when New Order played Gmex. I was there but I have better things to do than keep notes as to exactly what month it was. The point remains the same. Then, they could sell out 12,000 at Gmex in a few days. Now they struggle to sell 3000 for the Apollo. So my initial point, that attendances are down, still stands.
You're just flaming this forum for fun, and I claim my £40.
I am not flaming at all, don't be precious. Read my other posts. I am simply stating my opinion. And others are agreeing.
Oh, and 'precious fan boy' seems far more applicable to you than anyone else who's posted on this forum. Cos you're now dead upset and grumpy that your band ain't doing the stuff you're happy with. So you're throwing your toys out of the pram.
Upset and grumpy? I couldn't give a flying toss! They are not my band, they never were. I have grown up lots from the days when I had "my band". That's what kids do. Have you?
Though, what sort of prick falls in love with something just cos someone else told him it was cool twenty years ago really does need the proverbial rocket up his arse at 36 years of age. Or a good wake-up call at the very least.
You are getting even funnier! It was 24 years ago when I got into New Order, and it was nothing to do with what anyone told me. You know nothing about me, actually. Your assumptions are amusing but make you look a little infantile in your half-arsed attempts to argue
So, want to get back to the original debate, Fan Boy?
My points, in summary, were:
New Order are no longer important or groundbreaking. Their gig attendances are falling Their record sales are falling They are getting old They were brilliant.
Want to have another go? And watch the assumptions this time.....
Blunderer, could you remind me how many years you've been a fan for?
It's just I don't think you've ever mentioned it?
Except in every single fcuking post you've ever written.
Blunderer
I don't see what the fact that they are getting older and wider has to do with the music that they make 
I think this 'point' has a lot more to do with the fact that you are aging yourself and wish that you could go back to the good old days it seems very important to you to state your age and how long you have been a fan for constantly.
I only mention it because you have brought it up...personally I think the age of the band and their fan etc has got bugger all to do with the subject. 
Patrick wrote: Isn't "fanboy" one word?
TALKING of FANS-i'm your BIGGEST FAN mate.How the devil are you and i'm GLAD you are back!How was JAIL?
ROCKET MICK wrote:
Patrick wrote: Isn't "fanboy" one word?
TALKING of FANS-i'm your BIGGEST FAN mate.How the devil are you and i'm GLAD you are back!How was JAIL?
Just thought I'd check in to see what's going on and what do you know apparently they're breaking up again.
I'm pretty good RM, thanks, how about yourself?
New Order no longer important or relevant?
Radio One said this about Depeche Mode in 2001. Their recent album sold over 3 million copies and they've just finished a 12 month world tour regularly playing to five figure audiences. While New Order can't manage those stats, I'm not particularly concerend if they're important or not anymore...so long as they continue to write great music, that'll do for me. Isn't that all that matters??? I don't think NO have been genuinely ground-breaking quite as often as we think...perhaps when intergrating dance culture into rock music and vice versa, but they'd finished doing that by the mid 80's.
Many of NO's finest moments have little to do with being ground-breaking, and a lot to do with simply writing memorable songs.
When was the last time the likes of The Rolling Stones were ground-breaking or important? But they still continue recording and playing to huge crowds because they still love doing it and have a big enough fan base to make it worthwhile. If NO want to continue, and can still write songs that they're happy with (and let's face it, we've all been happy with their quality control in the past), I'm sure there'll be enough of us out there to buy their CDs and trot along to see them live.
Like a few other have pointed out...even at their most 'important and groundbreaking', did NO ever play many gigs that were bigger than they've played these last 2 years? Personally, I don't think NO suite large venues and 20,000 crowds like DM do anyway.
I've played NO (old and new material) to a lot of people younger than me who are more into today's guitar bands (Killers, Franz Ferdinand, Kaiser Chiefs, etc), and the reaction was always positive.
They may not be 'relevant' anymore in some spurious, MTV-led view of the current rock world, but NO continue to attract interest from every generation.
Blunderbuss wrote: No, read again. My argument is that New Order's past is good and their present is bad. A world of difference to what you have put. There are plenty of bands out there now at the cutting edge. But New Order are not one of them.
So, you now only listen to bands who are 'cutting edge'. Explain to me how that one works. Was Blue Monday cutting edge? Not really. Just a very commercial example of something which had gone on years before. Perhaps Confusion? No, not really again. More of a jump on the bandwagon. Fine Time maybe? Again, no. Perhaps Temptation and EGG were formulating something new, but then everyone was attempting somethign similar in the early 80's. So what do 'the kids' (and you, presumably) listen to these days which is so cutting edge? This should be good.
Well, trainspotter, it may have been 88 when New Order played Gmex. I was there but I have better things to do than keep notes as to exactly what month it was. The point remains the same. Then, they could sell out 12,000 at Gmex in a few days. Now they struggle to sell 3000 for the Apollo. So my initial point, that attendances are down, still stands.
They didn't sell out G-Mex in days, the gig was announced in September and was over subscribed maybe two months later, before tickets were issued. We're not all thick cunts with no memory. Doesn't make me a trainspotter. Point is, that was their first gig in over a year when everyone thought they'd split up. And it was a one-off gig. And they were at the peak of their powers. And their entire audience was late teens / early twenties. That same audience is now late thirties / early forties. Or should we all run out and go to gigs again quite so quickly. Imagine most of that audience have other priorities these days, don't you?
Upset and grumpy? I couldn't give a flying toss! They are not my band, they never were. I have grown up lots from the days when I had "my band". That's what kids do. Have you?
You're not upset and grumpy? Then why fcuking bother coming on here moaning? There's lots of things I liked twenty years ago but don't now. Why feel the need to whinge?
My points, in summary, were: New Order are no longer important or groundbreaking.
- And? So, you only listen to music that's 'important' or 'groundbreaking'? You sound like a pretentious teenager with such a comment. Their gig attendances are falling
- see my comments about the summer of 87 tour. Or the recent gigs in South America. And how many people went to see New Order in huge venues between, say, 81-86 when you of course were following them around and they were so brilliant! Not a lot of people, eh? Their record sales are falling
- the likes of Crystal made top 5. How may units did BLT shift in its day, pray tell? Or even the Perfect Kiss, which many regard as a stonewall classic. Didn't dent the top 40, did they? They are getting old
- hardly an argument. We all are. They were brilliant.
- unilaterally brilliant? I think not. Go listen to Way of Life, Shellshock, Ecstasy, Doubts Even Here, The Him, We All Stand, Guilty Partner, State of the Nation ... and then try and tell me those tracks are brilliant. Bless.
So, in summary, you only listen to music by young, thin blokes who play big stadiums and sell loads of records? But also retain an air of 'importance'. You're really gonna have to tell me who these mighty artistes are? I'm struggling for names.
El Jarvo wrote:
They were brilliant.
- unilaterally brilliant? I think not. Go listen to Way of Life, Shellshock, Ecstasy, Doubts Even Here, The Him, We All Stand, Guilty Partner, State of the Nation ... and then try and tell me those tracks are brilliant. Bless.
State of the Nation isn't brilliant? 
have just read the posts, firstly, I'm sure New Order will be back. WE'VE seen this kind of thing so many times before in bad times for the band, let alone these good times.
Secondly, these whiners who post about how NO aren't as good as they were, essentially fuck off and whine somewhere else. I am not interested. I've seen NO concerts from the early days through to now, and JDNO are still wonderful.
You're really gonna have to tell me who these mighty artistes are? I'm struggling for names.
My thoughts exactly.
Young, thin, innovative, influential, selling loads of records and touring stadiums everywhere?
FUCKING NOBODY that's who. Coldplay? The Killers? Radiohead? Blah, blah and blahhhh.
Jeepers. How this thread has unfolded. For a fan site, you lot do aint half slag the band off at times. I think it's fab that anyone can be a musician and do this for a career spanning 3 decades and hopefully another. I see their name in lights - not yours, so pee off and start another forum if you want to debate who influenced who and what song is great or crap. Oh, do it on another site as well. And to say you're old at 50! I hope you don't feel that way when you're 50. I think it's great they can do it and are doing it. Long may it continue and make people happy.
If it is the end, then so be it. It was also the end in 1989, and 1993, and things seemed uncertain for a while after 1998. In some ways I think they won't quit, but just return erratically and occasionally. It's the way they did it before.
Yes, gig attendances are falling. But the people who were 20 "back in the day" are 40-45 now, with children, mortgages, and divorces. The money isn't there.
The venues on their last tour were no different from the venues they played pretty much constantly from 1984-89 anyway : civic halls, lesiure centres, the odd arena.
And singles sales? Well, "Perfect Kiss", "Bacon Lettuce Tomato", "Run", "State Of The Nation" all barely bothered the Top 40 either, so current chart positions are irrelevant in many ways.
If it is the end, I hope they do the decent thing and tidy up the back catalogue : issue the VHS only shows and Montreux 93 on DVD, and release deluxe editions of old albums with rarities so it can all be put to bed.
Probably not though.
Another point: No's releases have always met mixed reviews and unpredictable sales. Their back catalogue is obviously classic now, but it wasn't at the time.
Low-life is probably the only one that was universally praised. Movement, P,C&L, Brotherhood all got mixed reviews on release. Technique in north america wasn't considered that great either, mostly because at the time the journalists were old baby boomers that didn't have a clue as to the scene it came from and had a knee-jerk reaction against anything 'dance music'.
And as previously mentioned, what are now considered some of their greatest songs never broke the top 40.
It's hard to be objective when you've been a fan of a group your whole life - but I can sincerely say I think their last two albums are some of their best work. The chorus of Jetstream grates on me but I really don't get it when people say their records are becoming an embarrasment compared to their 'glory days' - it's bullshit.
El Jarvo wrote:
Ness Order wrote: I feel quite shallow in my opinions: enjoying NO, enjoying the gigs and enjoying the company of the people who like them too.
And they certainly shouldn't stop listening to music just because the lead singer is fatter than he was 25 years ago.
Good God, if that was the case then I'd better stop listening to my entire record collection! 
In fact, should I just stop listening to myself, as I am fatter than I was 25 years ago! 
Oh, and who gives a toss if they're not *relevant* nowadays - who is relevant nowadays??? The Libertines? Coldplay? Muse? The Killers?
Minx wrote:
Plus some of us prefer the chunky look on a man
Hello there minx I don't believe we've met yet. 
- I was never interested in Depeche Mode.
- Record Sales don't prove, if a record is good or bad, only if it's mainstream or not.
- Same as for gigs.
- I never expected that New Order would revolve the music the last years again.
- New Order wasn't the same as in the 80s.
- They did a very, very good job the last years.
Patrick wrote:
ROCKET MICK wrote:
Patrick wrote: Isn't "fanboy" one word?
TALKING of FANS-i'm your BIGGEST FAN mate.How the devil are you and i'm GLAD you are back!How was JAIL?
Just thought I'd check in to see what's going on and what do you know apparently they're breaking up again.
I'm pretty good RM, thanks, how about yourself?
TERRIBLE
Chris owen wrote:
I've played NO (old and new material) to a lot of people younger than me who are more into today's guitar bands (Killers, Franz Ferdinand, Kaiser Chiefs, etc), and the reaction was always positive.
try playing it to someone with decent taste.
some good crack on here (much like the 'Craig W' Vikings are hooligans shit last year)
Jarvo - some forthright well described replies to Blundercock.
Nice to see that some pricks have the time to go onto forums & slag/slate/moan/belittle etc... one of their fave bands.
Two words Blunderer - Fook off
79 order wrote: spotnick,,,mate ,,, i meant what was the 3rd last gig,,, defo not 98 as they were advertising ally pally,, a brazilian just sounds tooo painfull .
Get yer geography right mate Buenos Aires is in ARGENTINA last time I checked 
I got front row right in front of Barney that day. If it was their last show, then I was blessed as the No. fan that I'm. However, I don't think New Order should retire... they can do many great albums yet. I want them to...
Some very different opinions on this thread!
Speaking for myself having been a fan of New Order for 22 years it is very strange to read that this could be the end. There have been other bands for me; Stone Roses, the Smiths and more but none has held the status for me as New Order.
I have a feeling we will see some more of them, but if they want to call it the day then that is something that´s normal. -Everything has an end, even New Order.
Wouldn´t mind though having New Order for a few more years and I regret that I didn´t see them in the UK if this was really their last tour.
If they quit we will doubtless hear something from Freebass and guess Bernard will continue doing music.
-The lay low period from 1990 - 1998, with the Republic exemption, gave us Electronic, Other two, Revenge and Monaco which at least gave me a daily fix. - So if at least we get some output from the lads, that´s at least better than nothing at all.
thanks Rocket for buggering this thread up even more.
i think we should just ignore blunderbus from now. he strikes me as a malcontent with nothing better to do than to flame here.
it just sucks that he had to tar this thread mourning the possible demise of the greatest band ever with his narrow erroneous ideas.
Dunno about you lot but I think that NO are big enough (as people)to be upfront about it and announce to a live audience if a tour was going to be their last. Not to say I think they will - I just think they have the balls to do it and personally I'd appreciate that very much.
Didn't Weller announce The Jam were splitting up before they launched into live set on The Tube?
