Join The Dots ONLY contains b-sides.

Therefore, if it contains a b-side from that album, it represents that album.

A few examples of box sets done right..

Cocteau Twins - Singles Box 10 CD set - Every single and EP released up to that point, with disc 10 containing unreleased tracks. Box set was released again under the title "Lullabies to Violaine", but broken down to 4 CDs and missing a few mixes.

Galaxie 500 - Galaxie 500 Box 4 CD set - All three albums remastered with non-album singles and b-sides added. Included a forth disc of EP tracks and unreleased songs.

Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth & Collected Works 3 CD set - Original album remastered on disc one. Every non-album single, b-side and EP track with additional demos on disc 2, then Peel sessions on disc 3.

mark reed wrote: Join The Dots ONLY contains b-sides.

Therefore, if it contains a b-side from that album, it represents that album.

WRONG... it contains b-sides

AND, rarities, and unreleased tracks.....

the following are not b-sides

"Lament" [Flexipop] (Smith) – 4:36 (Came on a vinyl record included on an issue of Flexipop, 1982)

"Icing Sugar" [Remix] (Gallup/Smith/Thompson/Tolhurst/Williams) – 3:23 (Extra track on Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me Orange Vinyl Bonus Disc, 1987)

How Beautiful You Are..." [Remix] (Gallup/Smith/Thompson/Tolhurst/Williams) – 4:25 (Extra track on Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me Radio sampler CD, 1987)

"Hello I Love You" [Psychedelic Version] (Densmore/Krieger/Manzarek/Morrison) – 6:04 (Previously unreleased, but recorded in 1990)

"Doing the Unstuck" [Saunders 12" Remix] (Bamonte/Gallup/Smith/Thompson/Williams) – 5:55 (Previously unreleased remix made in 1992, intended for a "Doing the Unstuck" single that never came to be, 1992)

"Purple Haze" (Virgin Radio Version) (Hendrix) – 3:18 (Originally unreleased 12" version, 1993)

"Burn" (Bamonte/Gallup/Smith/Williams) – 6:37 (Originally from The Crow official soundtrack, 1994)

"Young Americans" (Bowie) – 6:23 (Originally from 104.9 XFM compilation, a cover of a song by David Bowie 1995)

etc.. the 4th disc is mostly non b-sides..

======================================================== with your logic, putting new order b-sides on the remasters should represent that album???????????

no, not quite to me..

later -1

Re-Member wrote: A few examples of box sets done right..

Cocteau Twins - Singles Box

Galaxie 500 - Galaxie 500 Box

Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth & Collected Works

although the cocteau twins were somewhat prolific.... they still dont have that much material... so it's easy to compile their stuff (and you even admitted they missed a few tracks)..

yeah, i could pick bands with a few albums and mixes:

power station boxset arcadia boxset erasure [only 1986-1992] on 4 boxsets

and say that they did a great job, because it wasn't that hard to put everything they had in one place..

my point is to find a band that is prolific, that cares enough to put as much out as possible..

only two groups have tried, and although they weren't succesfull they tried, and they cheated since they only released them on itunes..

of course it was depeche mode, and u2 with their ultimate collections....

what would 'new order' fans be willing to pay for getting every possible mix / promo / b-side in a non-lossy format? all at one time..

i see another poll coming on..

later -1

Pity New Order don't have a Mark Lewisohn/Chris Heath figure to oversee things in a more thorough way. Or do they?

They have us, but they don't really care to check so it seems.

OK, program minimum: release remastered albums. Without bonuses, etc. that only enrage than appease fans.

I would buy such RE-mastered albums, if re-mastering (i.e. doing each instrument track by track) really took place, not just cleaning en masse via filters and EQs. That's the only raison d'etre of these reissues in the first place, right?

How was re-mastering of SLC done on 24 Hour Part People? To me the perfect example of re-mastering is the new mixes of on recent Beach Boys' compilations, done 40 years later: no distortion of concept, but they sound fresh, crisp, with proper basses. Now you think of Beatles, their 1987 CD editions are just painfully flat. When you get older and have more time, what else to do with your creative past?

-1 wrote: i've been trying to get the promo's since they first appeared, but have been outbid each time..

i guess i wanted to know ahead of time, what they were like..

maybe somebody on this board has them, and will comment..

other than that, it's a waiting game..

later -1

i will get the promos on mon/tues,will post my findings once they arrive.

You forgot the 0.13 version of "Hello I Love You" and "To The Sky".

...if we're getting nitpicky. I'm sure there are other tracks as well on there.

mark reed wrote: You forgot the 0.13 version of "Hello I Love You" and "To The Sky".

...if we're getting nitpicky. I'm sure there are other tracks as well on there.

i am getting nitpicky, that's why i said etc..

you should choose your words more carefully, if you were actually right, i might have listened to what you were saying...

pay more attention to WHAT you are trying to say, if you're wrong admit it, don't try to cover it up by agreeing with me..

later -1

Fucking yawn...

Of course I knew what I was saying : Join The Dots is a b-side box set : of the 70 or so tracks on it, 19 aren't b-sides, so that makes it 51 b-sides and 19 non b-sides. It's either that or I describe it as a Mostly B Sides With Other Guff box set.

You're using the finepoint of semantics to avoid the main issue everyone is discussing : these reissues are poorly sequenced, inconsiderately and incomprehensively compiled, and not satisfactory. No amount of debating Cabarate Voltaire, Heaven 17, or Cure reissues is going to detract from that point.

What about Gary Numan/Tubeway Army... Almost all albums, singles, b-sides, etc. have been re-released over the last few years...

-1 wrote: snip

once again, pick a group that 'acknowledges' all their remixes on any of their boxsets.... guess what, there aren't any..

not

ultravox

ultravox have a box set?

hibster wrote:

-1 wrote: snip

once again, pick a group that 'acknowledges' all their remixes on any of their boxsets.... guess what, there aren't any..

not

ultravox

ultravox have a box set?

technically no.. they've released remasters of the first three albums with john foxx together..

and they're working on the following:

2cd remasters of vienna , rage in eden -coming out this month 2cd remasters of the rest of their albums

a package called 'anthology' that will wrap up the leftover remaining tracks..

supposedly these remasters will be better than the last set that got released..

we'll see about that..

later -1

yeah, knew about the remasters cheers.

thought you may have solved my xmas shopping for a minute

Hmm, incase no one new the 2nd temptaion is the 12" version according to amazon.

To be fair, most of this stuff is elswhere. I might get Technique simply because that's the only one I don't have on cd, and I've never heard MTO or some of the otehr b-sides.

The second Temptation isn't on the promo discs at all, we'll see if it shows up on the released ones.

johnny james wrote: The second Temptation isn't on the promo discs at all, we'll see if it shows up on the released ones.

Maybe they needed to get rid of Temptation to add extra room for State of the Nation.

any updates from those that have the promos?

later -1

-1 wrote:

i like here on this board, that they give every other group out there a free pass, on messing up their remasters.

so i guess you don't want all the original remixes of opportunities (they still aren't on cd), love comes quickly, or west end girls? the songs that gave them their start? you must not be much of a fan.. i don't care about the books, jingles, or crappy filler... just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously...

later -1

Don't really want to derail this thread but "you must not be much of a fan"... get to fuck. Imflammatory comment or what.

I love PSB and I'm not saying that the remasters were perfect but come on. I'd say they were as good as they could be given the fact that the remit. Full 12" versions, b-sides and demos plus a track by track commentary from the band in book form - that's a pretty good package in anybody's book, except yours. The early Bobby O stuff is not owned by them so that's to to be expected, and as I stated, you got practically all the 12" versions that the band did themselves. EMI would have given the project a certain budget and limitations - 1 CD of the original album and one extras disc. I would have loved a massive boxset of rarities and other remixes but there you go - I was very happy with what we got. PSB do care about their fans - hence the giving away of demos etc via the website as it's clear that EMI won't be letting them do any more remasters in the near future.

Whereas the New Order reissues are just cack, and I'll be going with £50's versions.

got the message wrote:

-1 wrote:

i like here on this board, that they give every other group out there a free pass, on messing up their remasters.

so i guess you don't want all the original remixes of opportunities (they still aren't on cd), love comes quickly, or west end girls? the songs that gave them their start? you must not be much of a fan.. i don't care about the books, jingles, or crappy filler... just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously...

later -1

Don't really want to derail this thread but "you must not be much of a fan"... get to fuck. Imflammatory comment or what.

I love PSB and I'm not saying that the remasters were perfect but come on. I'd say they were as good as they could be given the fact that the remit. Full 12" versions, b-sides and demos plus a track by track commentary from the band in book form - that's a pretty good package in anybody's book, except yours. The early Bobby O stuff is not owned by them so that's to to be expected, and as I stated, you got practically all the 12" versions that the band did themselves. EMI would have given the project a certain budget and limitations - 1 CD of the original album and one extras disc. I would have loved a massive boxset of rarities and other remixes but there you go - I was very happy with what we got. PSB do care about their fans - hence the giving away of demos etc via the website as it's clear that EMI won't be letting them do any more remasters in the near future.

Whereas the New Order reissues are just cack, and I'll be going with £50's versions.

-1 is always right and we are always wrong. If you thought you were relatively happy with the PSB remasters, you were sadly mistaken. Instead of a carefully chosen selection of tracks, what would have made you really happy would have been EVERY single version of everything a band has ever put out. EVER. But, if you like Kraftwerk, and you thought that you might like a package that captured Francois K's mixes of Tour de France and The Telephone Call, and say, William Orbit's mix of Radioactivity. Well, you are wrong again. Because -1 knows music and we don't.

Ger Boy wrote: They should do a tour to promote these reissues!!

I'm sure they all have plenty of free time at the moment! the lazy buggers!

Hooky was in Amsterdam over the weekend, dj-ing that is...did look quite busy though:D

Emile Strunz wrote:

-1 is always right and we are always wrong. If you thought you were relatively happy with the PSB remasters, you were sadly mistaken. Instead of a carefully chosen selection of tracks, what would have made you really happy would have been EVERY single version of everything a band has ever put out. EVER. But, if you like Kraftwerk, and you thought that you might like a package that captured Francois K's mixes of Tour de France and The Telephone Call, and say, William Orbit's mix of Radioactivity. Well, you are wrong again. Because -1 knows music and we don't.

Ah cheers, there was a niggling feeling at the back of my mind that I was wrong and that my opinion was worthless, and it's good to have it confirmed by someone else. I thought I read somewhere that record companies just release substandard product to annoy -1 and for no other reason. Probably on Wikipedia.

got the message wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote:

-1 is always right and we are always wrong. If you thought you were relatively happy with the PSB remasters, you were sadly mistaken. Instead of a carefully chosen selection of tracks, what would have made you really happy would have been EVERY single version of everything a band has ever put out. EVER. But, if you like Kraftwerk, and you thought that you might like a package that captured Francois K's mixes of Tour de France and The Telephone Call, and say, William Orbit's mix of Radioactivity. Well, you are wrong again. Because -1 knows music and we don't.

Ah cheers, there was a niggling feeling at the back of my mind that I was wrong and that my opinion was worthless, and it's good to have it confirmed by someone else. I thought I read somewhere that record companies just release substandard product to annoy -1 and for no other reason. Probably on Wikipedia.

at least i admit my bias,

i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!...

and you forgot that i said the erasure boxsets EBX1-EBX4 were nearly perfect...convenient for you to miss that...

later -1

"i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!..."

The bottom line is that it does not require example of something better to validate someone's low opinion of something else. An opinion is just that, an opinion. You don't go to a restaurant and have the food and service turn out to be shit only to be forced to come up with a list of examples from other restaurants that were better in order to make a complaint. That just doesn't make any sense. If you are not pleased, you're simply not pleased.

If some of us here are a bit upset about the upcoming New Order releases, perhaps it's because it's a group who we really care the most about and want to get the best product possible to take care of most of the stuff that has not been available on CD yet. Although I'm a fan of The Cure, DM, PSB, etc, I personally don't place them above New Order on my list of favorite music, therefor it doesn't matter to me to have all or even any of their obscure mixes. If I did, I would be complaining about it on another message board, much like we are doing here with New Order.

Re-Member wrote:

The bottom line is that it does not require example of something better to validate someone's low opinion of something else. An opinion is just that, an opinion. You don't go to a restaurant and have the food and service turn out to be shit only to be forced to come up with a list of examples from other restaurants that were better in order to make a complaint. That just doesn't make any sense. If you are not pleased, you're simply not pleased.

i'm in the same position as you are, and everyone else, we're all getting robbed, right? i have never once said the 'new order' remasters were good/complete etc.

but you people (and whoever else) that keep on posting how great other remasters/boxsets are, and how new orders are terrible, are doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of doing...................in reverse..

people keep trying to point to other groups as examples to look to, when in fact they are all varying degrees of quality.. so why is anyone elses opinion about how other groups respond any better than mine?

its not that hard - this is not opinion

want everything - you'll most likely never get it (unless a group has very few releases)

if you're happy with a basic sample of a groups output - yeah, that's what the majority of releases are, then life goes on

if you're a casual buyer, like the majority of people out there - the bonus and remastered versions are fine, and you won't complain

i guess most of you fall in between the 2nd and 3rd categories....for other groups..

but when it comes to new order, suddenly you're in the 1st ....

that's why its bias...

later -1

-1 wrote:

at least i admit my bias,

i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!...

and you forgot that i said the erasure boxsets EBX1-EBX4 were nearly perfect...convenient for you to miss that..

later -1

Right.

One: I place PSB & NO on an equal basis as my fave bands (along with Saint Etienne) and neither have been perfect when it has come to reissues, but New Order are taking the piss first with Retro and now with the new remasters.

Two: to call PSB lazy when to comes to their back catalogue is shit to say the least. Very few other bands go to the effort they went to with the reissues of their first six albums.

Three: the Erasure boxsets were nearly perfect? Eh? What the fuck was wrong with them? Straight reissues of all their CD singles in a box. What more do you want? And more to the point, those boxsets were all the singes compiled - PSB, Cure etc have never set out to release such a thing so you can't compare like with like. The PSB reissues never set out to be complete, they were meant to be a reissue of the albums with accompanying material from the same era to complement the album, to give a overall picture of the band during that era.

I'd love all the material my fave bands have released to be released, but economics and commerce play a part also, and I'm realistic enough to know that it won't happen, so Im rarely disappointed as my expectations aren't heightened. The New Order remasters are an exception as I would have thought everybody involved would have pushed to make them as comprehensive as possible, but alas, all involved have been fucking lazy bastards to a man. I bet the artwork hasn't been improved as well. Shitters.

Nuff said.

got the message wrote:

-1 wrote:

at least i admit my bias,

i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!...

and you forgot that i said the erasure boxsets EBX1-EBX4 were nearly perfect...convenient for you to miss that..

later -1

Right.

One: I place PSB & NO on an equal basis as my fave bands (along with Saint Etienne) and neither have been perfect when it has come to reissues, but New Order are taking the piss first with Retro and now with the new remasters.

Two: to call PSB lazy when to comes to their back catalogue is shit to say the least. Very few other bands go to the effort they went to with the reissues of their first six albums.

Three: the Erasure boxsets were nearly perfect? Eh? What the fuck was wrong with them? Straight reissues of all their CD singles in a box. What more do you want? And more to the point, those boxsets were all the singes compiled - PSB, Cure etc have never set out to release such a thing so you can't compare like with like. The PSB reissues never set out to be complete, they were meant to be a reissue of the albums with accompanying material from the same era to complement the album, to give a overall picture of the band during that era.

I'd love all the material my fave bands have released to be released, but economics and commerce play a part also, and I'm realistic enough to know that it won't happen, so Im rarely disappointed as my expectations aren't heightened. The New Order remasters are an exception as I would have thought everybody involved would have pushed to make them as comprehensive as possible, but alas, all involved have been fucking lazy bastards to a man. I bet the artwork hasn't been improved as well. Shitters.

Nuff said.

Fucking A!!!!

Atleast the state of the nation fans can jump with glee. They have around 3 or 4 versions now, isn't that fanfookintastic?