Mapping the (hopefully!) forthcoming Definitive Editions... Part 1 - PC&L

Great news! And as my employer won't be getting us back in the office until at least January - and I'm spending as much time as possible indoors due to being "at risk" - this couldn't have come at a better time - much needed light relief!

As with 'Movement', I've just opted for the set itself. Hoping the 12" releases will appear on digital stores soon afterwards (as they did with the first set), so I can download lossless versions from Qobuz again. I'm sure the repressed 12 inches are lovely products, but I've already bought them on vinyl years ago, and don't like too many repeats in my music collection!

I've pre-ordered from the New Order store (along with those little 'True Faith' badges, which look pretty cool). When the PCL box is on Amazon, I'll pre-order it there too (the price guarantee enabled me to get 'Movement' a bit cheaper than the New Order store before). I'll cancel whichever store ends up being most expensive. Great stuff!

Haven't analysed it yet, but is there much difference between the leaked and final tracklistings?

Blue Monday sleeve looks like it doesn't have the original cutouts?

It looks fantastic.

ordered

Excellent! Can't wait!

Just done a quick comparison. The only difference I can spot is the following addition:

Album Session Recordings - Blue Monday Instrumental outtake

Main difference seems to be that the box is no longer pink with silver writing but burgundy with pink writing

The only tracklisting difference I can see from the leaked version earlier in the year is the addition of

Album Session Recording

Blue Monday (Instrumental Outtake)

Weirdly this track is NOT listed with an asterisk as previously unreleased?

GotBlueEyes wrote: Main difference seems to be that the box is no longer pink with silver writing but burgundy with pink writing

The only tracklisting difference I can see from the leaked version earlier in the year is the addition of

Album Session Recording

Blue Monday (Instrumental Outtake)

Weirdly this track is NOT listed with an asterisk as previously unreleased?

On the SuperDeluxeEdition website, this track is listed with a *. It therefore seems likely that it's purely a typo on the NO Store.

https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/new-order-power-corruption-lies-definitive-edition-box-set/#comment-1630709

Wooh! Finally! Couldn't see a release date in the email but searching online it appears it's 2nd October? Will deffo snap up a copy but undecided yet on the 12" re-releases.I have at least 2 copies of Blue Monday 12" already so may give the re- release of that a miss but will quite possible snap up Confusion, TLU and Murder re-releases.Actually, if i'm buying those 3 anyway i might as well complete the set and buy the BM re-release as well.

A lot of money going out of my account come September/October as i've also pre-ordered the £80 box set version with the lenticular cover of Doves' upcoming album due in September.

What's up with "Blue Monday" not having a die cut sleeve? Surely Warners has more money to blow than Factory did.

-Mike

Wheh hey! The Countdown (as in Veronica's Countdown?) performance of Confusion will be included on one of the DVDs, did we already know that? News to me, maybe i missed that in the original info a few months back.And an instrumental take of the Peel Session of Too Late? Can't recall that in the list from a few months ago either.So all great news

GotBlueEyes wrote: Main difference seems to be that the box is no longer pink with silver writing but burgundy with pink writing

I think that burgundy is the book.Box itself is still pink.

NotAMod wrote: When compiling my digital copy of the Movement box-set I "recreated" the much maligned 2008 Collector's Edition bonus disc tracklist but used the Frank Arkwright masterings sourced from Qobuz. The only track not of the era not digitally reissued at the time was "Procession" due to the focus on 12" but I nabbed a rip of that from the 2016 Singles remaster (also by Arkwright).

I found adding the recreated Collector's Edition bonus disc in-between the main album and demos disc made for an even "definitive-r" box-set in digital form. I think the only track missing was the 7" version of Hurt, which I don't believe has been digitally reissued so far.

I'll be doing the same thing again for my digital copy of the PC&L box-set... the corresponding Collector's Edition bonus disc tracklist was:

1 Blue Monday (12" version) 2 The Beach 3 Confusion (12" version) 4 Thieves Like Us (12" version) 5 Lonesome Tonight (12" version) 6 Murder 7 Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) 8 Confusion (Instrumental)

The 7" edits of Confusion and TLU can also be sourced from 2016's Singles.

My theory as to why they're not including discs with the 12" versions is because they're gearing up to a mega-reissue of Substance... although that's purely a guess on my part!

This is where cans of worms can be opened regarding what can be defined as a "complete" listing, as it's worth noting that the 2008 Collector's Edition CD two featured alternative versions of 'The Beach' and 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' that weren't on the original 12" releases. 'The Beach' was a slightly different take that was previously unreleased (and no doubt included in error); 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' was again an alternate take which (I'm told) appeared on the US 'Shellshock' 12" b-side (possibly also in error back then). So, to be a complete playlist, would you need to include both versions of these dub mixes now?

Very similar situation with 'in A Lonely Place', where some pressings of the 2nd 'Ceremony' release featured an alternate version in error - the same version that was on 'Substance'. However, both the 'Definitive Edition' re-release 12" and digital equivalents corrected this and featured the intended take (the first time it was available digitally). So, should a true 'Definitive' playlist include both versions - or just ignore the one released in error as it was never intended for release.

Similarly, the PCL 2008 Collector's Edition had a version of 'Murder' with a slightly longer intro that the 12" or 'Substance' versions.

This stuff can be a nightmare!

Fotz wrote: Wheh hey! The Countdown (as in Veronica's Countdown?) performance of Confusion will be included on one of the DVDs, did we already know that? News to me, maybe i missed that in the original info a few months back.And an instrumental take of the Peel Session of Too Late? Can't recall that in the list from a few months ago either.So all great news

Yep - both were listed originally. I was indeed excited when I noticed the 'Countdown' performance, as would love to see that. Imagine - a live in studio take of that song. Great stuff!

Mr Discography wrote: 'The Beach' was a slightly different take that was previously unreleased (and no doubt included in error)

I had no idea of this. Do you know how they differ?

Nice, looking forward to it.

However, like last time, I will wait for a price reduction, sale or other copy.

Glad to see these projects moving along.

later -1

I'm wondering if Bernard's introduction to 'Confusion' at The Metropol, Berlin, 1984 is included in the DVD:

"Right. You're the most miserable fucking audience we've ever played to in our fucking lives. I never, ever want to come back to Berlin. Ever. You miserable fucking BASTARDS!!!

"

I'm guessing this bit may be excised.

Don't "beat about the bush", Bernard. Tell us what you really think.

The 4 re-released singles will be released all on the same day as the box set, not week by week leading up to box set release like the way they did with the Movement box? Is that correct?

I'm looking forward to it! Bonus discs are:

Power Corruption And Lies - Extras (CD) Writing Session Recordings

1. Age Of Consent *
2. The Village *
3. 5 8 6 *
4. Your Silent Face *
5. Ecstacy *
6. Leave Me Alone * John Peel Session
7. Turn The Heater On
8. We All Stand
9. Too Late
10. 5 8 6 John Peel Session Outtake
11. Too Late (instrumental rough mix) *

New York demo #1 12. Thieves Like Us* Writing Session Recordings 13. Thieves Like Us * 14. Murder * 15. Blue Monday * 16. Blue Monday * Album Session Recording 17. Blue Monday (Instrumental Outtake) *Previously unreleased

I can't justify the $370.00 price tag, I'll just stream it legally for zero dollars. Lovely looking package though, vinyl collectors must be happy.

Release date is 02/10/2020. At this rate we'll get Technique in 5 years time from now.

Fotz wrote: The 4 re-released singles will be released all on the same day as the box set, not week by week leading up to box set release like the way they did with the Movement box? Is that correct?

Yep. Same day, I believe.

Sage_ wrote: At this rate we'll get Technique in 5 years time from now.

Well, originally, one website had this listed for 08/11/19 (see page 1 of this thread). With hindsight, it seems likely that this was the original scheduled date, based on the fact that it said 2 x DVDs (Movement only had 1 x DVD). We know that it was delayed at least once more (when it leaked as being out in January 2020).

So, therefore, this set has potentially been delayed by 11 months. A Nov '19 release hints at a possible original plan to release a set every 6-7 months.

If this is correct and they manage stick to it, we could get to Technique much sooner than 5 years...

In theory. Of course, there's quite likely to be some more hiccups along the way, but hopefully the sets won't be delayed as much as PC&L has been.

perspexorange wrote: I'm wondering if Bernard's introduction to 'Confusion' at The Metropol, Berlin, 1984 is included in the DVD:

"Right. You're the most miserable fucking audience we've ever played to in our fucking lives. I never, ever want to come back to Berlin. Ever. You miserable fucking BASTARDS!!!

"

I'm guessing this bit may be excised.

Don't "beat about the bush", Bernard. Tell us what you really think.

I kept the guitar jam that leads to Confusion in there, but no between song banter on that occasion.

Johnny James wrote:

I kept the guitar jam that leads to Confusion in there, but no between song banter on that occasion.

Very diplomatic of you.

That's an absolute classic Barneyism. He must've been having a particularly bad day.

I've probably said this before Johnny, but many thanks for your continued work on these sets.
This one looks even better than 'Movement', which was damn near perfect.

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: 'The Beach' was a slightly different take that was previously unreleased (and no doubt included in error)

I had no idea of this. Do you know how they differ?

There's some missing production elements early on. I think we're talking about the corrected versions of the Collector's Editions? They will have used the studio analogue master which wasn't quite the final mix down. The actual master is on a U-Matic and features a small edit section that needs to be cut into it to complete it. This time round we couldn't get that U-Matic to play so had to use an analogue EQ'd production master reel for The Beach. Blue Monday is straight from a studio master reel.

Oh - quick question. Was the 'Album Session Recording - Blue Monday (Instrumental Outtake)' a late addition, or was it just accidentally missed off the 'leaked' contents list last year?

If it was a late addition, was it something found late on (i.e. in Hooky's bin)?

I sure hope the remastered singles will be available digitally in high-resolution in the USA. That was not the case with the movement era singles for whatever reason. A shame, and quite honestly lost revenue for the banisters and concerned.

perspexorange wrote: Oh - quick question. Was the 'Album Session Recording - Blue Monday (Instrumental Outtake)' a late addition, or was it just accidentally missed off the 'leaked' contents list last year?

If it was a late addition, was it something found late on (i.e. in Hooky's bin)?

I think we'd already decided to add it (it was a later addition than the rest), though the listing that was leaked was a slightly old one anyway.

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: 'The Beach' was a slightly different take that was previously unreleased (and no doubt included in error)

I had no idea of this. Do you know how they differ?

There's some missing production elements early on. I think we're talking about the corrected versions of the Collector's Editions? They will have used the studio analogue master which wasn't quite the final mix down. The actual master is on a U-Matic and features a small edit section that needs to be cut into it to complete it. This time round we couldn't get that U-Matic to play so had to use an analogue EQ'd production master reel for The Beach. Blue Monday is straight from a studio master reel.

So does that mean the version of 'The Beach' on the new 12" reissue is true to the one on the original 83 12" (and 'Substance')?

Also, on the subject of 'Substance', someone on superdeluxeedition has said "Apparently there’s a Substance box planned in the same format that will hoover up the various single versions. Expect a long wait for that one though, studio albums first…" Any truth in this rumour Johnny?

Mr Discography wrote:

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: 'The Beach' was a slightly different take that was previously unreleased (and no doubt included in error)

I had no idea of this. Do you know how they differ?

There's some missing production elements early on. I think we're talking about the corrected versions of the Collector's Editions? They will have used the studio analogue master which wasn't quite the final mix down. The actual master is on a U-Matic and features a small edit section that needs to be cut into it to complete it. This time round we couldn't get that U-Matic to play so had to use an analogue EQ'd production master reel for The Beach. Blue Monday is straight from a studio master reel.

So does that mean the version of 'The Beach' on the new 12" reissue is true to the one on the original 83 12" (and 'Substance')?

Also, on the subject of 'Substance', someone on superdeluxeedition has said "Apparently there’s a Substance box planned in the same format that will hoover up the various single versions. Expect a long wait for that one though, studio albums first…" Any truth in this rumour Johnny?

The Beach should be true to the original 12", it probably uses the exact same tape.

Substance has been worked on, but at the moment there aren't any specific plans as to what formats it would come out on. Ideas are being kicked around.

Johnny James wrote: Substance has been worked on, but at the moment there aren't any specific plans as to what formats it would come out on. Ideas are being kicked around.

That sounds positive. Although off this thread's topic, here's my opinion...

I hope they keep the tracks exactly as they appeared on the original release (with the 1987 re-recorded 'Temptation' and 'Confusion'), as it's my favourite album by any artist (regardless of it being a compilation), and I'd like it remastered in its original form. The only tweak I'd make for the main album on the CD version, is stick back in the 40 or so seconds originally edited out of 'The Perfect Kiss' due to early CD running time constraints to be the full 12" as it was on the original 'Substance' vinyl (as modern day CDs can hold 4-5 more minutes in total at 79:58 or thereabouts).

The other edited 12" versions ('Subculture', 'Shellshock') should remain in their truncated edited 'Substance' forms, as I feel they benefited from being shortened down from what were very lengthy 12" mixes. The full versions of these 12" mixes will, after all, get re-released to accompany the 'Low-life (Definitive Edition)' boxed set.

Perhaps they could expand 'Substance (Definitive Edition)' to 3 CDs to mirror the tracklist of the original 2 x cassette which include 'Procession', the extra B-sides and dubs (not all of which appeared on the original CD 2 due to time constraints) with the Substance edit of 'Hurt', for the same reason as 'Shellshock' and 'Subculture' above. You'd also need 'Murder' in there somewhere too, either after 'Thieves' on CD1 (as per the tape), or inbetween 'Lonesome Tonight' and 'Thieves (Instrumental) on CD2. Don't mind which.

And bung in a few tasty live sets from the era on the DVD - that gig where they played 'Substance' in order if a video exists?

I'd also love it if they digitally release all the 7 inches to accompany a 'Substance' box. There's a few unique B-side and dub version edits that have never come out digitally, and it'd be great to see those on download stores and Spotify too with their original cover art.

Mr Discography wrote:

Johnny James wrote: Substance has been worked on, but at the moment there aren't any specific plans as to what formats it would come out on. Ideas are being kicked around.

That sounds positive. Although off this thread's topic, here's my opinion...

I hope they keep the tracks exactly as they appeared on the original release (with the 1987 re-recorded 'Temptation' and 'Confusion'), as it's my favourite album by any artist (regardless of it being a compilation), and I'd like it remastered in its original form. The only tweak I'd make for the main album on the CD version, is stick back in the 40 or so seconds originally edited out of 'The Perfect Kiss' due to early CD running time constraints to be the full 12" as it was on the original 'Substance' vinyl (as modern day CDs can hold 4-5 more minutes in total at 79:58 or thereabouts).

The other edited 12" versions ('Subculture', 'Shellshock') should remain in their truncated edited 'Substance' forms, as I feel they benefited from being shortened down from what were very lengthy 12" mixes. The full versions of these 12" mixes will, after all, get re-released to accompany the 'Low-life (Definitive Edition)' boxed set.

Perhaps they could expand 'Substance (Definitive Edition)' to 3 CDs to mirror the tracklist of the original 2 x cassette which include 'Procession', the extra B-sides and dubs (not all of which appeared on the original CD 2 due to time constraints) with the Substance edit of 'Hurt', for the same reason as 'Shellshock' and 'Subculture' above. You'd also need 'Murder' in there somewhere too, either after 'Thieves' on CD1 (as per the tape), or inbetween 'Lonesome Tonight' and 'Thieves (Instrumental) on CD2. Don't mind which.

And bung in a few tasty live sets from the era on the DVD - that gig where they played 'Substance' in order if a video exists?

I'd also love it if they digitally release all the 7 inches to accompany a 'Substance' box. There's a few unique B-side and dub version edits that have never come out digitally, and it'd be great to see those on download stores and Spotify too with their original cover art.

I think you have to use the 87 versions, as they're part and parcel of the original release. The originals were on Singles anyway (remastered). I'd say the Perfect Kiss edit adds nothing so use the full one. Also, I'd use the correct In A Lonely Place as again, that alternate (not quite finished mix) adds nothing. I'm definitely into using the cassette extra tracks over two CDs. Yes to the other edits, Hurt, Shellshock, Sub Culture.

If it was done as a box of some sort, adding more content could be tricky. We'll probably use the better material for DVDs on the Definitve albums. That Substance show does exist on audio cassette but is far from perfect (tape flips missing a bit), no video of it. So, I dunno if there much we could add.

Johnny James wrote:

I think you have to use the 87 versions, as they're part and parcel of the original release. The originals were on Singles anyway (remastered). I'd say the Perfect Kiss edit adds nothing so use the full one. Also, I'd use the correct In A Lonely Place as again, that alternate (not quite finished mix) adds nothing. I'm definitely into using the cassette extra tracks over two CDs. Yes to the other edits, Hurt, Shellshock, Sub Culture.

If it was done as a box of some sort, adding more content could be tricky. We'll probably use the better material for DVDs on the Definitve albums. That Substance show does exist on audio cassette but is far from perfect (tape flips missing a bit), no video of it. So, I dunno if there much we could add.

I agree with the above Johnny (Including 'In A Lonely Place'). Maybe a 4 x CD + 2 x LP 'Definitive Edition' would do the trick then:

• Original 12 track LP on double vinyl
• Original cassette tracklisting on 3 x CDs (with slight alterations/corrections stated above)
• Fourth CD featuring the seven inch B-side / dub edits never yet released digitally, plus maybe a few more mixes, exclusives or unreleased tracks /demos from the era (plus the 'Salvation' tracks?)

That'd do me nicely. Must admit, not a fan of extending the original tracklist beyond 'True Faith' / '1963'. It ceases to be purely 'Substance' then.