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Great! Thanks Johnny.
I've just taken a quick listen to both and you can definitely tell the difference between the two 6:38 versions. Listen to them both at the 4:40 point. There's some echo-y extra keyboard bits on the Collector's Edition (Take 1). There may be other bits, but I got lucky by happening to check that part first.
perspexorange wrote: Great! Thanks Johnny.
I've just taken a quick listen to both and you can definitely tell the difference between the two 6:38 versions. Listen to them both at the 4:40 point. There's some echo-y extra keyboard bits on the Collector's Edition (Take 1). There may be other bits, but I got lucky by happening to check that part first.
had a long discussion about these mixes two years ago with most of you guys here: http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=28879#post28879
http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=28880#post28880
http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=28884#post28884
http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=28887#post28887
basically echoing information repeated above.
later -1
True.
However, I don't think anyone had mentioned the two versions of the 6:38 instrumental before though, had they? If they did, I missed it.
Incredible to think that, despite my best efforts a few years back to track down pretty much every mix, there are still 'new' versions that are lurking on various compilations / non-UK releases.
Anyone able to point me in the direct (or a cat. No.) Of the exact US 12" that has this version of 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' on it? Looked on Discogs and it lists two, both with 'Thieves Like Us' - no indication of it being an instrumental, unless it's mislabeled on the release.
Mr Discography wrote: Anyone able to point me in the direct (or a cat. No.) Of the exact US 12" that has this version of 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' on it? Looked on Discogs and it lists two, both with 'Thieves Like Us' - no indication of it being an instrumental, unless it's mislabeled on the release.
I noticed this on Discogs earlier too - that with all the Shellshock 12"s with 'Thieves Like Us' on them, there's no indicator that they are the 'instrumental' version. Very confusing!
According to the Recycle Project, they sourced the instrumental version on the Shellshock 12" as follows:
"sourced from A&M Canada 45RPM 12" single SP-12174".
50poundnote should be able to clarify for you, as he was involved, I believe.
Mr Discography wrote: Anyone able to point me in the direct (or a cat. No.) Of the exact US 12" that has this version of 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' on it? Looked on Discogs and it lists two, both with 'Thieves Like Us' - no indication of it being an instrumental, unless it's mislabeled on the release.
Every US pressing should have the "instrumental '86" version.
Johnny, I assume the production master of 'Thieves Like Us' (from original 12" and 'Substance') has been used for the reissued 12" and digital 12", rather than the studio master that has that erroneous vocal drop in at 5:29 that appeared on 'The Best Of' and PCL Collector's Edition?
GotBlueEyes wrote:
50poundnote wrote:
GotBlueEyes wrote: It blew my mind a second time when I realised years later via the guy who blogged all the singles, that quite a lot of the Substance tracks were edits or alternate versions
That was me. :)
It took 4 of us a couple of months to figure all of that out, cross-referencing our copies and sourcing from other people. Discogs wasn't very helpful at the time, since Factory's own records were haphazard. Nor was Wikipedia. It was a labor of love.
I can't thank you enough - a fantastic effort
Seconded...actually am listening to it right now on my iTunes. Lovingly made a beautiful CD collection of these at the time - always on the lookout for a nice little perspex box to house them ;) Thanks so much!
Mr Discography wrote: Johnny, I assume the production master of 'Thieves Like Us' (from original 12" and 'Substance') has been used for the reissued 12" and digital 12", rather than the studio master that has that erroneous vocal drop in at 5:29 that appeared on 'The Best Of' and PCL Collector's Edition?
We've definitely sorted that out.
Johnny James wrote:
perspexorange wrote:
I had no idea of this. Do you know how they differ?
The Beach was missing some edit sections that should have been inserted, that includes the outro bit.
Are these sections that were edited into the original 12" version of 'The Beach' included in the 'Instrumental Outtake' version on the Definitive Edition, or was there another version of 'The Beach' mixed down (a bit like how the released 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' is a combined edit of two different mixdowns)?
Johnny James wrote:
Murder has a longer drum intro at the beginning that should have been trimmed.
Having heard this longer drum intro on the Collector's Edition CD2, it made me wonder why they clipped the start on the original 12" version, as the unedited version has drums that start on the beat - whereas the 12" starts on an offbeat and always felt like it kind of 'tripped over' into the beat a little when it started. Wonder why they removed those first few seconds originally?
Fotz wrote:
...i absolutely loved Procession right from the off with that synth intro and Bernard's lyrics about "nobody even tries to find out, what they once knew" .
Erm...oops.That lyric is actually from Mesh of course (was listening last night), not Procession.God i'm getting as bad as Bernard for forgetting things.Oh, not quite as Bernard yet maybe, he didn't even remember Procession existing.
Anyway, as you were.
So, where’s everyone preordered from?
I’m still undecided.
I want the box set (obviously) plus the four 12”s.
Amazon has the set for £107.99, but would need to get the four 12”s elsewhere at £9.99 each. So £148 thereabouts.
New Order Store, its £135 for the lot.
The obvious answer is to go to the NO Store.
However, Amazon are probably more reliable on delivery dates. I’m sure I’ll get it release day if I order through them. Not so confident about the NO Store.
Also, Amazon don’t charge until dispatch. The NO Store will charge straight away, so will be a bit of a ball-ache if I decide to cancel and order elsewhere (if prices drop etc.)
C’mon guys. Help me make a decision. 😁
I'm reall undecided yet, ugh! .Half think i'll buy the lot from NO store and take the chance that i may have to wait a bit longer for delivery and then half think i'll pay the extra £13 and buy the box from Amazon and then the 4 singles from NO store.
perspexorange wrote:
C’mon guys. Help me make a decision. 😁
Ah well, i've gone for the NO store option.Just ordered the £135 bundle.
If it arrives on the day then great, if i have to wait a couple of weeks well so be it.Worse happens at sea.
Thanks Fotz. That certainly helped and I've done the same.
Here's hoping that, based on the price, they use a better courier than Royal Mail. I noticed that there was a 'tracked' option at £9.00, which kind of negated the benefit of ordering through the store.
I think the only thing i wish they'd done with these definitive box sets is leave enough room to fit the accompanying re-released 12" singles in the box if you indeed buy the re-released singles.All releases associated with the album's era could be stored together in the box wit eveerything else.But then if you didn't buy the 12" re-releases i guess there'd be redundant space in the box so yeah, bit of a pipe dream.And also i guess it's not financially viable to make bigger boxes if not everyone buys the single re-releases.Just a thought.
Is it true then that the Blue Monday reissue will not be a replica die-cut sleeve?
It's the only 12" of this set that I don't have (having got rid of my old reissue copy when I thought I'd sourced a fair condition original die-cut on Discogs) - then they announced the Movement box and the 12" reissue program, and as they seemed to be embossing the sleeves to be as replica as possible (and were great quality pressings) I figured I'd hold out for the new BM that would come with the PCL set
Damnit
I know the picture on the New Order Store isn’t die-cut but this could just be a mock-up.
There are signs that it will be die-cut.
A few copies snuck out early in error a few months ago:
https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Blue-Monday/release/14822524
As you can see, this is die-cut. Of course though, this could be changed before release, so don’t take my word on it.
Fingers crossed though.
perspexorange wrote: I know the picture on the New Order Store isn’t die-cut but this could just be a mock-up.
There are signs that it will be die-cut.
A few copies snuck out early in error a few months ago:
https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Blue-Monday/release/14822524
As you can see, this is die-cut. Of course though, this could be changed before release, so don’t take my word on it.
Fingers crossed though.
Ah yes - forgot about that. The user who listed it did message me to explain that it was a genuine pressing, so maybe.
Interesting that Discogs have blocked it from sale though - which they only usually do for bootlegs. Can't see a bootlegger would go to the trouble of diecut sleeves and QR codes that link to neworder.com
Fotz wrote: I think the only thing i wish they'd done with these definitive box sets is leave enough room to fit the accompanying re-released 12" singles in the box if you indeed buy the re-released singles.All releases associated with the album's era could be stored together in the box wit eveerything else.But then if you didn't buy the 12" re-releases i guess there'd be redundant space in the box so yeah, bit of a pipe dream.And also i guess it's not financially viable to make bigger boxes if not everyone buys the single re-releases.Just a thought.
Perhaps a better option would be a separate, accompanying box for those that order the singles as a bundle.
Having done away with my vinyl and turntable years ago, I'm one of those that don't give a shit about vinyl reissues, even the LP's that come in the boxes.
GotBlueEyes wrote: Interesting that Discogs have blocked it from sale though
They would have blocked it because you can't sell items before their official release date.
I can't image they'll release Blue Monday without the die cut sleeve. That is THE Factory legend story (among many).
Fotz wrote: I think the only thing i wish they'd done with these definitive box sets is leave enough room to fit the accompanying re-released 12" singles in the box if you indeed buy the re-released singles.
...I just assumed they’d left room. I had intended to put my original singles in the boxes. Oh!
Yeah. Nope - that isn't something you can do. Or, at least, not with the 'Movement' set anyway.
I would imagine it will be the same for 'PC&L'.
perspexorange wrote: So, where’s everyone preordered from?
I’m still undecided.
C’mon guys. Help me make a decision. 😁
I just bought it from the Neworder Store at going rate - I figure that way, most of the proceeds reach the band and those who've curated the thing, making future boxes that bit more likely.
Rorschach wrote:
I just bought it from the Neworder Store at going rate - I figure that way, most of the proceeds reach the band and those who've curated the thing, making future boxes that bit more likely.
That's a good point. I'm not sure how these sort of things work, but it does seem possible.
Yeah, Technique is a more mature album (duh) but PCL is strangely more intriguing. The only thing we '''''need''''' from Technique is a clean version of that demo cassette. https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/artefact.php?&aid=1864&bid=693 Still can't be arsed with this though. With Summer and Covid money's too tight to mention. Fortunately Melanie C will be paying for our wedding. Girl Power!
Excellent. Thanks for the 'heads up', D!
Really enjoyed that.
Nice to hear both Steve and people who were at this legendary gig reminiscing about the night.
perspexorange wrote: this legendary gig
For those of us who don't know, what makes this gig legendary?
I'm amazed anyone can recall details from a gig they performed 37 years ago when they're performed thousands of gigs since.
