Mapping The Definitive Editions - Brotherhood

perspexorange wrote:

Andy wrote:

Sub-Culture [7" version instead, 2.5 minutes shorter]

It's not the 7" version, I don't think. I think it was a new edit.

7" was 3:28 Substance edit was 4:48

Just to confuse matters, there was also a Factory Benelux only remix at 4:58. I think that appeared on a 7" single in the FBN territories, but I could be wrong.

Andy wrote:

[Help me, somebody help me: Does somebody know offhand if they used the correct mix of "In a Lonely Place"?]

Hmm. Good question. I think the version on Substance is the version that was on later pressings of the 12", rather than the original. But don't hold me to that. Mr Discography is bound to know for sure.

Correct on "Sub-Culture". Was thinking the 3.5 minute mix was only a promo/radio edit because the remix/edit that appeared on Substance was also a bonus cut on the U.S. "Sub-Culture" 12". Mispoke about it being the standard 7".

Andy wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

Andy wrote:

Sub-Culture [7" version instead, 2.5 minutes shorter]

It's not the 7" version, I don't think. I think it was a new edit.

7" was 3:28 Substance edit was 4:48

Just to confuse matters, there was also a Factory Benelux only remix at 4:58. I think that appeared on a 7" single in the FBN territories, but I could be wrong.

Andy wrote:

[Help me, somebody help me: Does somebody know offhand if they used the correct mix of "In a Lonely Place"?]

Hmm. Good question. I think the version on Substance is the version that was on later pressings of the 12", rather than the original. But don't hold me to that. Mr Discography is bound to know for sure.

Correct on "Sub-Culture". Was thinking the 3.5 minute mix was only a promo/radio edit because the remix/edit that appeared on Substance was also a bonus cut on the U.S. "Sub-Culture" 12". Mispoke about it being the standard 7".

The 3:26 Sub-culture was the 7" (that appears on 'Singles'). Substance edit is a unique shorter version of the 12". Not aware of it ever being released elsewhere - never heard of it being on a US 12". The Belgian 7 FAC 133 featured 'Sub-culture (Remix Edit)' (4:58), which is another unique edit, similar length to the Substance edit, but not the same.

'In A Lonely Place' on Substance is, in fact a slightly alternate take that never appeared (as far as I remember) on either of the two Ceremony 12" singles. This alternate version appeared elsewhere I think (Retro?), But was the correct version on both Ceremony reissues that came out with the Movement box.

I'd forgotten about this error with Substance, so yes, that'd be another one to correct with any reissue - by including the original version that came out on both twelve inches.

Since the colour of gray has been taken I wonder what color they will choose for this one. Maybe metallic blue?

Mike C. wrote: Since the colour of gray has been taken I wonder what color they will choose for this one. Maybe metallic blue?

Good point - I have no idea. I'd guess a purple-ish blue.

I was looking at the current vinyl reissue of Brotherhood and I hate what they did to the sleeve. The Definitive Box edition should restore the original metallic sleeve thank god

It baffled me why they changed the sleeve.

They made it look like a rippled piece of cloth, rather than the stamped piece of metal that it actually was. It made no sense. At least not to me.

Anyone know the reason why?

But, yeah, restore it to it's original design and make it the metallic version, as opposed to the standard 'matt' version. And my vote would be a dark blue colour for the box.

Any news / rumours of this box set , either timescales ( this year??) or of content?

I'm ready to buy

Col72 wrote: Any news / rumours of this box set , either timescales ( this year??) or of content?

I'm ready to buy

Not this year, that's the one thing I can say for sure.

Johnny James wrote:

Not this year, that's the one thing I can say for sure.

Thanks for the update, JJ.

How about the JD live set? Any news you could share? Is it likely to come out this year, format etc?

BUMP

Johnny, and word on when we can expect this? Any hints as to what it may contain?

50poundnote wrote: BUMP

Johnny, and word on when we can expect this? Any hints as to what it may contain?

There's not much I can say, but it's moving along.

Johnny James wrote: There's not much I can say, but it's moving along.

That's great to hear! It's not my favorite NO album, but it's the first one I bought as a new release, so it holds a special place in my heart.

The live versions were better than the album, especially All Day Long and Angel Dust. Can't wait to hear what live material ends up in the set.

I know it was technically the Substance tour, but the 8/25/1987 NYC gig that ended up as the Chapter III bootleg is my favorite NO gig. Would be thrilled if a soundboard of that exists, and shows up in the set.

The album that me in to New Order. Still love side A in particular

What's everyone's views on the boxsets so far? I've only got Movement which I got for a much reduced price - still think they are way overpriced and there is no need for a hardback book which could be smaller etc.

tapebias wrote: What's everyone's views on the boxsets so far? I've only got Movement which I got for a much reduced price - still think they are way overpriced and there is no need for a hardback book which could be smaller etc.

I've liked them a lot. On Movement i loved stuff like the Cargo demos and the Peppermint Lounge gig. The P,C&L one is beautiul. Great little details like the CD sleeve being an exact miniature replica of the vinyl sleeve complete with the die cut holes. Love stuff like the early writing session version of TLU.The remastered 12" singles that accompany sound really good.Strangely though, i didn't find the sound of the vinyl of the remastered album itself that great

The Low Life box was one i'd been looking forward to a lot.Really interesting to hear previously unreleased writing session recordings and demos.And another exact miniature replica CD sleeve. I find i only play the extras CD from that box though. I wasn't blown away with the DVDs.

I think the hardback books on all are essential to complete the package.

Would be good if the releases were a bit more freqeunt and could be sped up but i appreciate it takes a lot of time to get these sets together.

The boxes and remastered reissue 12"s have become the only music i buy physically these days. I haven't bought a regular vinyl album or CD for a long time.

I love them. They are things of beauty.

I will say though, that 'Movement' really hit it out of the park and I don't think that the other two sets have been quite as good (although still damn great).

'Movement' had the legendary Hurrah's gig, plus the Peppermint Lounge, which was just brilliant. Plus the Cargo demos were wonderful and the highlight for me. I regularly play those (probably more the LP versions).

As regards the others, 'PC&L' had some great DVD stuff (especially the 2 x Hac and Kilkenny gigs). 'Low Life' was a little light on 'new' video stuff, basically having 2 x gigs (Tokyo and Leuven) that were in common circulation, but it was really good to see full Toronto/Rotterdam footage.

Although I really liked the stuff on the CDs for the latter two sets, it was difficult to compare them to the Western Works/Cargo demos on 'Movement'. I have listened to them a few times, but don't find myself going back to them as much as 'Movement'. I think having vocals on demos makes them more interesting to me. I think JJ has commented that it is sometimes easier to get non-vocal demos approved by the band (Bernard?), but I would definitely love to hear vocal demos on the forthcoming sets.

I love the books. They complete the package and help to make the package live up to their 'definitive' titles. My only slight criticism of them is that I wish they had digital copies of the books included too. Due to their slight unwieldy nature, I haven't read them all fully yet. I do most of my reading at night in bed and you can't really get away with taking them to bed (without the wife kicking me out). I've thought about trying to scan the books for my personal consumption, but haven't got around to that yet.

perspexorange wrote: I will say though, that 'Movement' really hit it out of the park and I don't think that the other two sets have been quite as good (although still damn great).

Agreed. The FACt that the BBC 'Rock Around the Clock' feature is absent from the Low-Life DVDs still bothers me.

The Movement box is flawless, very complete with the demos and unseen videos.

Mr. Disco wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I will say though, that 'Movement' really hit it out of the park and I don't think that the other two sets have been quite as good (although still damn great).

Agreed. The FACt that the BBC 'Rock Around the Clock' feature is absent from the Low-Life DVDs still bothers me.

It has been lost from the BBC archives i think was the reason.It was no longer available. Many fans have old VHS copies i guess could have been used but i guess it's a licensing issue? I don't know how these things work.The video quality wouldn't have been great but would have been no worse than some of the live footage that did make it on to the Definitive box set DVDs ( great to see those of course) so go figure.

It's been nearly 15 months since the Low-life box, and 6 months since the deluxe edition of Substance. Any word on the Brotherhood box?

50poundnote wrote: It's been nearly 15 months since the Low-life box, and 6 months since the deluxe edition of Substance. Any word on the Brotherhood box?

Currently still on schedule for this year. Working hard to hit the deadlines.

Johnny James wrote: Currently still on schedule for this year. Working hard to hit the deadlines.

Great news, thank you! Just out of curiosity, has there been any discussion about how far the sets will go? Factory-only? Republic? All the way up to Music Complete?

50poundnote wrote:

Johnny James wrote: Currently still on schedule for this year. Working hard to hit the deadlines.

Great news, thank you! Just out of curiosity, has there been any discussion about how far the sets will go? Factory-only? Republic? All the way up to Music Complete?

I recall reading on here somewhere that the plan was to do up to a combined 'Waiting For The Sirens' Call' & 'Lost Sirens' set (guess because we already have a similar boxed set for 'Music Complete'). I wonder if the sets will get that far in the end though? I hope they do.

Johnny James wrote:

50poundnote wrote: It's been nearly 15 months since the Low-life box, and 6 months since the deluxe edition of Substance. Any word on the Brotherhood box?

Currently still on schedule for this year. Working hard to hit the deadlines.

Are you able to tell us how many DVDs will be in the Brotherhood set?

Johnny James, if you’re out there, any word on when this might be announced? Has there been any discussion on how far they’ll go, and if we could maybe speed them up? It’s not long until my record buying days are behind me.

A). keeping this near the top for JJ to see easily. B). wishing they do them all.

Finally, getting around to the DVDs for PC&L. When Barney introduced Stephen as Ian Curtis I was stunned, overjoyed and sad all at the same time. Of course there’s been many reports that the band feels like they didn’t really deal with his death, but obviously he continued to be on their minds. What a great gig to have, and that ending is unbeatable.

Ok, Johnny James - please update when you can. Thank you

I can't really say much, we're very close to delivering everything. Then it's off to production.

From this month's Classic Pop magazine. Stephen reveals most of the Brotherhood box contents:

Edit: perhaps not "most" of it...

Looks like a November release then so it can be included in people’s Christmas present lists.

Hope we don’t have to wait as long for the Technique box. I was 16 when Fine Time came out and saw the band live for the first time a few months later. A great time of life when I started to fully embrace the band!

Time seems to be speeding up the older I get and I’d like to enjoy these box sets whilst I still have my health!😂

Mr. Disco wrote: From this month's Classic Pop magazine. Stephen reveals most of the Brotherhood box contents:

Edit: perhaps not "most" of it...

Interesting about wanting to the the NO/PSB Unity tour in the UK. PSB have a "big announcement" on Radio 2 this morning to coincide with Neil's 70th birthday - wonder if that's what's being announced?

Good news! Thanks Mr D!

So... in other news: no plans for new music as New Order. Instead, a new book, a book of photos from Gillian, a sitcom script, The Other Two songs from 2010 are still good to go and Superhighways will also be reissued.

I'm game. Keep' em coming!