Mapping The Definitive Editions - Brotherhood

Mr. Disco wrote: no plans for new music as New Order.

Boo! Hiss!

A real shame.

Still, good news about the photo book (which sounds pretty cool) and the reissue.

Mr. Disco wrote: So... in other news: no plans for new music as New Order.

In your "Pet Sounds" screen shot, Stephen says "I feel embarrassed to say it but no there isn't any new music". But is that the same thing as no plans for new music as New Order?

Have I missed a statement saying there are "no plans"?

I would be very happy to stand corrected on this.

If they’re not going to work on new music, at least they’re involved in these reissues. It would be a shame if they were not. So despite no new music at least we are getting something new from them.

I’d rather this than them actually have new music that for whatever reason they refuse to release. Here’s looking at you, Robert Smith!!

Debaser wrote:

Mr. Disco wrote: So... in other news: no plans for new music as New Order.

In your "Pet Sounds" screen shot, Stephen says "I feel embarrassed to say it but no there isn't any new music". But is that the same thing as no plans for new music as New Order?

Have I missed a statement saying there are "no plans"?

Is the missing context here that they are talking about the Pet Shop Boys having a new album out and doing gigs, but Stephen is saying he's embarrassed to admit that they are doing a show but have no new music out?

I think if there were no plans whatsoever, he'd have phrased it differently. If anything I'd read it as an admission that they just haven't finished whatever new music they are working on

Just announced

More details

looks great...

and all the new muisc..

the bundle is what i'm getting...

https://usstore.neworder.com/en/new-order/brotherhood/brotherhood-deluxe-edition-1lp-2cd-2dvd/825646253104.html

CD1Brotherhood (2024 Remaster)ParadiseWeirdoAs It Is When It WasBroken PromiseWay of LifeBizarre Love TriangleAll Day LongAngel DustEvery Little CountsState of the Nation CD2ExtrasShellshock (AOR Version) *State Of The Nation (Japan Demo) *Paradise (Robert Racic Remix)As It Is When It Was (Japan Demo) *Broken Promise (Instrumental) *Bizarre Love Triangle (Stephen Hague 12” Remix) *All Day Long (Instrumental) *Evil DustEvery Little Counts (Full Length) *Salvation ThemeSkullcrusher (Full Length) *Touched By The Hand Of God (Salvation Version)Let's Go (Salvation Version)SputnikBlue Monday 1988 (Michael Johnson 12” Remix) *(* previously unreleased) DVD1Live at the Academy Brixton, 1987Bizarre Love TriangleThe Perfect KissCeremonyDreams Never EndLove VigilantesConfusionAge Of ConsentTemptationTV Appearances:Ceremony (BBC Northern Ireland – Channel One 1986)Love Will Tear Us Apart (BBC Northern Ireland – Channel One 1986)State Of The Nation (The Tube 1986)Broken Promise (The Tube 1986)True Faith (Top of the Pops 1987)Les Enfants du Rock, Rockline 1987Paradise (Les Enfants du Rock, Rockline 1987)Bizarre Love Triangle (Les Enfants du Rock, Rockline 1987)True Faith (The Roxy, 1987)Bizarre Love Triangle (11pm, 1987) Extra MaterialStephen’s Fly On The Wall Documentary 1985.Recording 'As It Is' and ‘Shame of the Nation’ at Denon Studios, Tokyo (May 1985). DVD2Live at the G-Mex, Manchester, 19/07/86.ElegiaShellshockParadiseBizarre Love TriangleWay Of LifeState Of The NationFace UpThe Perfect KissCeremonyTemptation Other Live Performances:True Faith (Glastonbury, 1987)Sister Ray (Glastonbury, 1987)Dreams Never End (San Giovanni, 1986)All Day Long (Pier 84, New York, 1987)  Angel Dust (Pier 84, New York, 1987)       Shellshock (Pier 84, New York, 1987)       Weirdo (Pier 84, New York, 1987)  True Faith (Rapido, Paris 1987)Touched By the Hand of God (G-Mex, Manchester, 1988)Every Little Counts (G-Mex, Manchester, 1988) VINYL LPBrotherhood (2024 Remaster) A1.     ParadiseA2.     WeirdoA3.     As It Is When It WasA4.     Broken PromiseA5.     Way of Life B1.     Bizarre Love TriangleB2.     All Day LongB3.     Angel DustB4.     Every Little Counts

later | || || | ne gative 1

Salvation in full

What is Shellshock AOR?

That's quite a tasty tracklisting. Can't wait. Observations...

• No idea what 'Shellshock (AOR Version)' means, but it's usually an abbreviation for Adult Oriented Rock, an 80s genre usually meaning soft-rock. I hope that's not what it means in this case..!
• Interesting to have the Robert Racic Remix of 'Paradise' on there for completion, as well as the 'Salvation' tracks - although it's missing the full-length 8-minute version of 'Touched By The Hand Of Dub' that was on the original soundtrack CD titled 'Touched By The Hand Of God (Remix)'
• 'Bizarre Love Triangle (Stephen Hague 12" Remix)' - now this one really excites me. I love some of his extended 12" mixes, such as 'Round & Round'. Assume this was done at the time of the 'Married To The Mob' soundtrack version in 1986/87 (essentially the '94 version on 'The Best Of', but with those lovely "do do, do do do do" ad libs after the first chorus). Amazing to learn they've been sitting on a Stephen Hague extended mix of this for so long..! Has to be the track I'm most looking forward to hearing. I wonder why they asked Stephen Hague to do two new versions - was there a plan to re-release it as a single around the time of 'Substance' maybe?
• 'Every Little Counts (Full Length)' - assume this will be the album version, but continuing after the vinyl scratch sound effect. Wonder how long it'll go on for?
• Interested to hear the full length 'Skullcrusher' too
• Also wonder what 'Blue Monday 1988 (Michael Johnson 12" Remix)' will sound like - perhaps just a variant of the 12" mix we're already familiar with?
• Hope the Brixton Academy set is the one without those interviews cutting in every so often (think there was one without, and one with on the 2 different VHS releases? Can't remember for sure)
• Can't wait to see Stephen's documentary too!
• 'True Faith (Glastonbury 1987)' - this was where the live footage in the 'True Faith' video came from. Wonder why there's not footage from the whole set included?
• 'True Faith (Rapido, Paris)' - if this is the version there was a brief clip of on the 'Rapido' TV show, I remember it sounding very good - hope it's the full song.
• Interesting that 'State Of The Nation' is on the CD, as with the original release - I wondered if the CD would end on 'Every Little Counts' this time to mirror the LP tracklisting, especially as the single is getting a seperate 12" and presumably digital release
• The official store states "Touched by the Hand of God was the third single from 1986’s Brotherhood" - it wasn't though, was it?! Particularly as it had 'True Faith' and 'Substance' in between 'Bizarre Love Triangle' and 'Touched By The Hand Of God', and the artwork had a similar look to 'True Faith'. I suppose it's a third 12" to accompany this box though, and the Salvation version (essentially the demo) probably dates from around this time. Plus is clears the slate ready for the 'Technique' box and accompanying single re-releases in another year or so.

I'm very excited about this, such a great tracklisting. As before I'll wait to order it from Amazon (just the boxed set - I've not been rebuying all the 12 inches as I already have the originals), as the shipping is usually quicker, and there may be a price drop prior to the release.

Great stuff!

P.S. Whos' going to be bold enough now to start the 'Mapping The Definitive Editions - Technique' thread.

Mr Discography wrote:

• Interested to hear the full length 'Skullcrusher' too

So the regular Skullcrusher will remain exclusive to the Salvation! soundtrack?

I've been trying to comment for an hour but the forum keeps rejecting my comment as SPAM. And it's doing my head in!!!

Jcp7 wrote: Salvation in full

What is Shellshock AOR?

Wondered if this is close to the "standard" version that appeared on the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, but never appeared on a Factory release? They might have meant OST (original soundtrack) instead of AOR (album-oriented rock)...or it could be a version mixed for the American market, i.e. turn up the guitars and downplay the synths?

WOW! A lot to unpack here and I'm going out tonight and tomorrow. More comments when I get time. Obviously, this looks amazing. A little bit of a shame that there's not more demos (I guess they can only release what's available), but the remixes sound good. Especially the unreleased ones.

Stoked to see GMEX '86!

50poundnote wrote:

Jcp7 wrote: Salvation in full

What is Shellshock AOR?

Wondered if this is close to the "standard" version that appeared on the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, but never appeared on a Factory release? They might have meant OST (original soundtrack) instead of AOR (album-oriented rock)...or it could be a version mixed for the American market, i.e. turn up the guitars and downplay the synths?

This was my thinking too. The 'Pretty In Pink' version (or similar), which happens to be my favourite version of the song. Hope so, but I'll certainly take a 'new' version too.

CD2 - 2 - State Of The Nation (Japan Demo) * CD2 - 4 - As It Is When It Was (Japan Demo) *

DVD1 - Recording 'As It Is' and ‘Shame of the Nation’ at Denon Studios, Tokyo (May 1985).

Presumably these are related. I remember reading in Dennis' book (I think) that these two tracks were recorded together. Wonder if the AIIWIW demo is the same as that murky bootleg that's been doing the rounds for decades. Will be nice to hear in decent quality. If it is, strange that State Of The Nation (or Shame Of The Nation as it was called back then) wasn't leaked, considering they're from the same session.

50poundnote wrote:

Jcp7 wrote: Salvation in full

What is Shellshock AOR?

Wondered if this is close to the "standard" version that appeared on the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, but never appeared on a Factory release? They might have meant OST (original soundtrack) instead of AOR (album-oriented rock)...or it could be a version mixed for the American market, i.e. turn up the guitars and downplay the synths?

Surely the former.

Johnny James - Hope you don't mind the questions, but are/were there no embryonic or demo forms of either "True Faith" or "1963" available?

Also, will either the sleeves for either the CD or LP have a metallic finish like the original FACD and FACT editions?

-Mike

JJ - any idea if the Pier 84 & GMEX '88 video clips are from the same source as the bootlegs that have been doing the rounds?

perspexorange wrote: JJ - any idea if the Pier 84 & GMEX '88 video clips are from the same source as the bootlegs that have been doing the rounds?

Speaking of the DVDs, New Order finally are to repay Echo & the Bunnymen for Stephen's (possible) appearance on their 1999 boxset, Crystal Days 1979-1999. Ian joined them for Ceremony at G-Mex 1986, and Stephen (or David Palmer) is credited in that box's liner notes with drums for some previously unreleased, circa 1986 studio sessions.

Great news.Quite a lot on there of interest for me, most of which folks have posted about already today so i won't repeat if i can help it.One thing i don't think i've seen any mention is will the clip of Broken Promises from The Tube be a full version ? Original airing was cut halfway through at the end of the broadcast.I'd assume it'll be a full version on the box set DVD.

Cool that stuff like G-Mex 1986 video will be on there, and also a couple of clips from G-MEX 88 too.Looking forward to seeing the Glastonbury 87 clips, Sister Ray especially.Oh and i don't think i'm familiar with thiis 11PM tv show that they did BLT on.That's something i've never seen.

Stephen Hague BLT 12" mix, wow, that'll be cool to hear.

Every Little Counts full length? Interesting!

Think i saw the clips of Ceremony and LWTUA , the BBC Northern Ireland ones for first time a year or two back but will be good to have.

I've touched on just a few things there but there's plenty more in the set i'm looking forwar to hearing and watching.

Pricey box though, yet again

Just keeping track of the pricing here, for my sanity. I know the cost of living has gone a bit nuts the past few years but I, for one have yet to have a pay rise 😕

These are the prices I paid on Amazon UK

December 2018 Movement Deluxe £90 (still available on Amazon at £90) October 2020 PCL Deluxe £90 (now available on Amazon at £80) November 2022 Lowlife Deluxe £120 (now available on Amazon at £93)

November 2024 Brotherhood on the official store is £160?!! Not listed on Amazon yet

Hmmm

although there's a decent amount of material on this.

i feel like there should have been at least another disc of tracks.

weren't there more cassette rehearsals, or early demos?

i'm sure there were more versions of 'bizarre love triangle', and quite a few touched by the hand of God versions that could have been used.

also there were definitely more blue monday 88 mixes, that were demos on cassette too.

1 let's go (nothing for me) 4:02 v, cd, cs 2 let's go (salvation) 3:42 v, cd, cs 3 let's go (extract) 2:01 cd

8 Touched by the Hand of God (12" arthur baker) 7:59 cd 9 touched by the hand of God (bias 2000) 6:46 cd

i'm sure there were some more edits of tracks also.

later | || |||| | | ne gative 1

Looks very interesting the addional tracks, DVD and hopefully a decent remaster which this album may really benefit from. the cost is really excessive though.

Also no large book this time around? Seems strange not to match the others

Jcp7 wrote:

What is Shellshock AOR?

Well that normally stands for Adult Oriented Rock. Is there a rock version of Shellshock? Lots of Bernard guitar on there perhaps?

So we've got NINE previously unreleased tracks on the second disc. That should be fun.

[Every Little Counts (Full Length) has me intrigued. Some people don't iike this track but I've always loved it - other than perhaps the pig/zoo lyric. Can't wait for this.

Blue Monday 1988 (Michael Johnson 12” Remix): have we not already heard this via one of those leaked cassette things? I used to have that cassette stuff on my hard drive but maybe I lost it when my last PC bit the dust... John "Tokes" Potoker did the A-side version of BM'88. Beach Buggy was the vocal-free mix by Michael Johnson on the B-side (depending on territory). So this is presumably similar to Beach Buggy but with vocals? I thought we might get some of the other BM88 'cassette' versions.

Bizarre Love Triangle (Stephen Hague 12” Remix) -why on earth didn't they put this on the other side of the Shep remix 12" at the time? Maybe it's crap? [EDIT:oh it probably didn't exist yet!]

PS: I wrote this post about 5 hours ago before Mr Discography's post #70 appeared (but the forum insisted it was SPAM) so y'know...similar comments from others in the mean time.

The Shadow wrote: Looks very interesting the addional tracks, DVD and hopefully a decent remaster which this album may really benefit from. the cost is really excessive though.

Also no large book this time around? Seems strange not to match the others

the image shows a book. wouldn't see why they didnt include it in the listng.

i really enjoy the books,

later ||| | || | | ne gative 1

Yeah the book features in the video ad as well so defo included, must be an error in the description.

Bizarre Love Triangle (Stephen Hague 12” Remix) -why on earth didn't they put this on the other side of the Shep remix 12" at the time? Maybe it's crap?

maybe we should be glad they're not include bizarre love triangle (armand van helden mix) on it.

NOW that would be strange. but of course they're not including any of the new mixes. the richard x one is quite good.

but stephen hagues versions is probably still pretty decent.

there were also: bizarre love triangle (single remix) 3:44 v, cd bizarre love triangle (threesome) 3:23 cd bizarre love triangle (extended edit) 4:58 v

which would have interesting also..

later || | |||| | ne gative 1

negative1 wrote:

but stephen hagues versions is probably still pretty decent.

Yeah I've gone back and edited my comment now, as I guess the Hague 12" mix didn't quite exist at the time of the original single release. Hooky might be pleased that this 12" version gets to see the light of day, as his bass has probably survived (Married To The Mob), unlike on the Shep mix.

We should probably post the video/tweet

[TWITTER]1831318233174925822[/TWITTER]

Been listening to XFM's Brotherhood 25th anniversary episode from 2011. A lot of great details in there I'd forgotten, such as the Japanese recording sessions were at the request of the record label, so the band could teach the Japanese producers their recording techniques.

perspexorange wrote: JJ - any idea if the Pier 84 & GMEX '88 video clips are from the same source as the bootlegs that have been doing the rounds?

Pier 84 is, I asked the taper for a transfer from the master. I then used the desk recording for the audio.

G-MEX '88 is filmed by crew from side stage.