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It seems that Cries & Whispers is often labelled as Mesh (it was on Substance) and people often confuse the two. Both were on the EGG 12" and Mesh was also on FACTUS 8 12"/CD 5 track with Temptation etc.
I think both are great early NO songs but I particularly like Mesh and have been thrashing it again lately. What do the rest of you think about Mesh - lyrics are hard to understand aren't they?
"Mesh" (the version on Disc 2 of "Substance") is an interesting song, even though the lyrics are more than strange (i.e. look for one of the threads going on right now regarding Bernard's lyrics!)...
Every time I hear the song, it reminds me of weird voodoo, some kind of strange chanting...almost spellcasting. I dunno, it's a strange track and I don't mind listening to it...
There certainly is a lot of confusion about which is which, however the following would appear to be true:
Cries And Whispers has the opening line "Filled with desire, the empty scene..."
Mesh has the opening line "Below the surface, this day I feel it bite..."
The sleeve of the Benelux 12" lists the songs in the correct order, the label does not.
Mesh on Substance is correctly credited. Mesh on FACTUS8 / FEP313 is wrongly credited, it is Cries And Whispers.
It looks like they are about to make the same mistake on Retro....
Sorry, have to disagree. Substance is wrong and the listing on Retro is finally putting the correct titles on the songs once again.
So come on then....someone must know!
Mind you, i dont know if i can accept the truth after all these years!!
Originally posted by bill poster Sorry, have to disagree. Substance is wrong and the listing on Retro is finally putting the correct titles on the songs once again.
I think that Mesh on Substance is the correct song. On Retro, Cries and Whispers will be in fact Mesh.
Originally posted by In a Lonely Place > Originally posted by bill poster> Sorry, have to disagree. Substance is wrong and the listing on Retro is finally putting the correct titles on the songs once again.
I think that Mesh on Substance is the correct song. On Retro, Cries and Whispers will be in fact Mesh.
What's the point of that?? 
99.95% of us have Substance, why put out "Mesh" when "Cries and Whispers" is there for the taking?
Originally posted by mr_nobbs So come on then....someone must know!Mind you, i dont know if i can accept the truth after all these years!!
perhaps the truth is that there is no truth. Maybe the band themselves never really got it straight?
Old Blue wrote "Cries And Whispers has the opening line "Filled with desire, the empty scene..."
Mesh has the opening line "Below the surface, this day I feel it bite...""
that's backwards from what I always thought those songs were, but I don't have any special knowledge about it.
Originally posted by bill poster Sorry, have to disagree. Substance is wrong and the listing on Retro is finally putting the correct titles on the songs once again.
Nah, put it this way: The original 'Everything's Gone Green' Factory Benelux 12" - the song beginning "filled with desire, the empty scene" is titled as 'Cries And Whispers', as it is on the later released CD version of this single. On 'Substance'. that's the same. The only place 'Mesh' is incorrect is on the '1981-1982' CD and 12", which leads me to suspect they got it wrong across the Atlantic.
The original release and 'Substance' called that song 'Cries And Whispers', the '1981-1982' EP didn't. Also don't forget both songs appear on the 'Substance' cassette, side 3 - and they appear with 'Cries And Whispers' being the song mentioned above. It looks like it's going to be (another) mistake on Retro, surprise, surprise.
Andy.
So let me get this straight:
Is Cries & Whispers the song that goes "ship sails out to sea away from me I just stand and stare" or is this Mesh?
I am and have always been confused about this. I'm sure on my original 12 " there is a bit of mis-labelling going on between whats printed on the sleeve and the vinyl.
Originally posted by Mr Disco So let me get this straight:Is Cries & Whispers the song that goes "ship sails out to sea away from me I just stand and stare" or is this Mesh?I am and have always been confused about this. I'm sure on my original 12 " there is a bit of mis-labelling going on between whats printed on the sleeve and the vinyl.
When they played the song that contained the above lyrics on the 83 US tour, it was listed as "Cries and Whispers" on the band's set-lists. That's all I know.
On the other hand, live concert recordings from before the release of the 12" have Cries & Whispers being the 'Below the surface' one. I knew these songs before they were first released and as far as I was concerned, Substance was mislabelled.
Originally posted by bill poster On the other hand, live concert recordings from before the release of the 12" have Cries & Whispers being the 'Below the surface' one. I knew these songs before they were first released and as far as I was concerned, Substance was mislabelled.
This is what the New Order Discography has to say on the subject:
Andy.
the lyrics 'below the surface...' and ..."I just stand and stare' are from the same song, the one I have known as Cries and Whispers for years. My tapes of this song played live around 80/81, which didn't happen very many times, are labeled that way, but I don't recall if I made the song lists after listening to the tapes or if I got them with the trades (I've had those tapes for about 12 or 13 years).
I have all them CDs/ALBUMS/12 INCHERS but i don't have ANY idea.Just call em song one and song two.Then relax and enjoy both.Works for me.:D
this may be just something designed to fuck with our minds and produce discussions of this nature. remember that they had alternate titles for all their early songs: "death rattle", etc. same thing happening here i reckon.
let's call them "the one with the drony synth intro" and "the one with the evil bass intro" - cos barney's lyrics ain't up to much anyway :)
"drony synth" is on the substance cd, which (imho) is the better of the 2 anyway. can't remember which way they were labelled on the cassette, but i'll dig it out next time i'm back at the parents. i only have the benelux EGG twelver, so all i can say is that the songs are definitely mislabelled on either the vinyl or the sleeve on this. can't remember which one came first though... any help?
so the real question is what are we gonna get on "retro"? i feel that given that "retro" will be the most recent statement on the matter of which is which, that's the one that should hold the most weight. unless the band themselves have forgotten.
it seems to me that most early New Order songs have evil bass and drony synth, so I'll refer to them as 'what do they want from me' and 'we never compromise' (which I believe to be 'cries and whispers' unless/until a band member clearly states otherwise).
Solved it !!! Just been listening to a US 83 tape, and on the track that begins "below the surface", Hooky adds backing vocals at one stage, clearly singing "Cries and Whispers".
Hmm well i guess that does settle it Cobweb geezer! So for years i (and many others by sound of it)have got the two tracks mixed up?!! I dont know if i can cope with a change this monumental in my life!!
Originally posted by Rocket Mick I have all them CDs/ALBUMS/12 INCHERS but i don't have ANY idea.Just call em song one and song two.Then relax and enjoy both.Works for me.:D
Song Two? I thought that was blur...
let's call the first one monkeys and the second one squirrels!!!
There is only one place where is was wrong - and that is much mentioned prior "1981 FEP313 1982" EP - both songs are labeled correctly everywhere else, and I am sure that Retro will have it right again. It was a single mistake on one album not some massive bumbling conspiracy that has been perpetuated throughout the ages by vicious mindless record companies like some NO conspiracy theorists would like to make you believe - the simplest answer is usually the correct one. One album right and every other wrong OR one album wrong (which is documentented everywhere)? Hum... I wonder.
