143 replies · 8,438 views
0_o wrote: Except for some outdoor festival shows, which I assume they will do next year... does any band really like playing in large arenas, other than dicks like U2? Does any fan like watching shows in large arenas? Maybe Bernard will tour more if the gigs are more fun, rather than larger.
Really prefer NO indoors. I was at Finsbury Park 02 and it was not really good IMO.
fdisk wrote: A return to Hull City Hall is overdue....
Too right... then on to Rotter's in Doncaster, Tiffany's in Leeds... and the Newcastle Mayfair.
There may be a slight flaw (or three) in this plan, I admit...
Here's some thoughts on the "split", by the way.
I don't think the split was solely caused by Hooky leaving.
Now that Gillian's health issues are open, it's highly understandable that Stephen (and Gillian) were not really able to commit to full time band activity in 2007-9. Which, with Hooky leaving, left New Order down to one man and practically inactive until Stephen and / or Gillian could come back.
Does anybody seriously think that Stephen was going to play drums and tour the world whilst his wife (also the bands keyboard player) was going through Chemotherapy and facing a potentially terminal condition?
In these circumstances, even if Hooky hadn't left, its certainly not surprising at all that the band was on hiatus / split until everything was clearer.
mark reed wrote: Here's some thoughts on the "split", by the way.
I don't think the split was solely caused by Hooky leaving.
Now that Gillian's health issues are open, it's highly understandable that Stephen (and Gillian) were not really able to commit to full time band activity in 2007-9. Which, with Hooky leaving, left New Order down to one man and practically inactive until Stephen and / or Gillian could come back.
Does anybody seriously think that Stephen was going to play drums and tour the world whilst his wife (also the bands keyboard player) was going through Chemotherapy and facing a potentially terminal condition?
In these circumstances, even if Hooky hadn't left, its certainly not surprising at all that the band was on hiatus / split until everything was clearer.
Not so plain to me. Main reason for the split was Hooky intending to do a JD World Tour with New Order members.
Then he used FAC/Hacienda name without telling anyone and decided to play JD songs with his own band. Both things drove Bernard wild 
This thread reminded me that 7 out of the 8 New Order gigs I've been to were at outdoor venues. I don't think they ever had a problem selling tickets in Californa so these outdoor gigs were a necessity.
1987: The Greek Theatre in Berkeley 8,500 capacity (co-headline tour with Echo & the Bunnymen)
1989: Santa Barbara Bowl 4,562 Irvine Meadows 16,085 (headlined both shows)
1993: Shoreline Amphitheatre 22,500 The Hollywood Bowl 18,000 (headlined both shows)
2001: Shoreline Amphitheatre 22,500 (Moby Area One Festival)
2005: Kaiser Convention Center 5,492 (headlined) Coachella Festival
Andy wrote: This thread reminded me that 7 out of the 8 New Order gigs I've been to were at outdoor venues.
Yeah, both times I've seen them have been outside. I was always hoping they'd eventually play an indoor show in my town, but whoever their tour promoter in the US was kept booking them into Merriweather Post Pavilion. They played there in 87, 89 and 93 (I saw the last two of those).
Genetic wrote: Despite the high esteem we all hold New Order in I doubt they'd sell enough tickets these days for a stadium tour.
Makes sense, start off small and see if the interest is still there.
And, for all the criticism he got for the way he went about it, Hooky was right about this all along.
So was he also right about the twatty way they dealt with him? If so Im not sure if I wouldnt also be calling everyone a cunt too.
Right now they are building things up by playing mid-size gaffs they know they can sell out at the drop of a titfor. They know they can fill these places easily, don't need to tread carefully. Just see how rapido they sold out. Not everyone gets a brief? tough titty. Folk have to be at their PCs banging refresh like demented woodpeckers? so what. Creates excitement, leaves punters wanting more.
Hook got bucket loads of shit for going well below the belt in recent interviews. I didn't see anyone condemn him for predicting NO would carry on beyond the two Shamberg gigs. Everyone expected that. And wanted that too. That was Hook trying to twist things when there was nothing there to twist......surprised you fell for that.
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
Johnny Giles wrote:
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
I dont agree, and thats someone who's been accused of being Pro-Hooky and Anti-Hooky on the same thread on the same day.
Genetic wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
I dont agree, and thats someone who's been accused of being Pro-Hooky and Anti-Hooky on the same thread on the same day.
So what exactly don't you agree with Gene and why?
That Hook has used lawyers aggressively? That he's used them against his old band mates left right and centre? That he hasn't turned the Hac into a joke? What exactly?
How others see your stance on Hook is important to you? Well we differ there. I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks about my views on NO's former bass player. Each to their own.
Johnny Giles wrote:
Genetic wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
I dont agree, and thats someone who's been accused of being Pro-Hooky and Anti-Hooky on the same thread on the same day.
So what exactly don't you agree with Gene and why?
That Hook has used lawyers aggressively? That he's used them against his old band mates left right and centre? That he hasn't turned the Hac into a joke? What exactly?
How others see your stance on Hook is important to you? Well we differ there. I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks about my views on NO's former bass player. Each to their own.
Id agree with that but i have to say that i cant remember bernard and co mentioning the hacienda all that often,at least before 24HPP.I dont think bernard and steve have a right to complain about what hooky is doing when the option was there for them to do something different or cash in so to speak.
Though personally im glad they didnt get involved in factory/hacienda nostalgia but i do think they should quit complaining about hooky doing it.
Johnny Giles wrote:
Genetic wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
I dont agree, and thats someone who's been accused of being Pro-Hooky and Anti-Hooky on the same thread on the same day.
So what exactly don't you agree with Gene and why?
That Hook has used lawyers aggressively? That he's used them against his old band mates left right and centre? That he hasn't turned the Hac into a joke? What exactly?
How others see your stance on Hook is important to you? Well we differ there. I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks about my views on NO's former bass player. Each to their own.
Not sure where all the aggression comes from, but we'll crack on. And as you asked so nicely what I disagreed with is that he has "noone to blame but himself"
If you dont want people to comment on your posts, or its going to make you all effy-jeffy, I dunno, have a wank instead.
Genetic wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
I dont agree, and thats someone who's been accused of being Pro-Hooky and Anti-Hooky on the same thread on the same day.
Fans like us don't have to be pro or anti any member of the band, it is possible to be pleased that New Order are back but to regret that Hooky isn't involved and also some people here don't like to see Hooky being demonised or seen as some sort of villian when clearly New Order meant as much to him as it did to the others. His ill-tempered comments re the reunion of course played right in the hands of his detractors but maybe folks should give the Hooky bashing a little break now,it's getting tiresome.
Am slightly confused now Gene, reading your last message whether you're for or against a bit of Anglo Saxon. Hey ho, now I know you're a sensitive little flower I'll try to be on my best behaviour. Best steer clear of any boozer for the foreseeable, I've been in some and trust me, some of the language was pretty peachy.
Anyways, thankyou for clarifying your position. Most appreciated. Now, why don't you believe the ex bass player has brought it all on his own head?
Seriously, it's like someone who's spent 5 years poking a bear and is now crying cos it's bitten him.
cranelane wrote:
Genetic wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
I dont agree, and thats someone who's been accused of being Pro-Hooky and Anti-Hooky on the same thread on the same day.
Fans like us don't have to be pro or anti any member of the band, it is possible to be pleased that New Order are back but to regret that Hooky isn't involved and also some people here don't like to see Hooky being demonised or seen as some sort of villian when clearly New Order meant as much to him as it did to the others. His ill-tempered comments re the reunion of course played right in the hands of his detractors but maybe folks should give the Hooky bashing a little break now,it's getting tiresome.
Cranelane, I agree in principle that the personal attacks on Hooky have gotten tiresome, but with all the "NO Hooky, No New Order" comments on facebook, I wanted to offer the following perspective.
In my 7 years visiting this forum I hadn't seen any all-out Hooky bashing until the last year or so. And even now I think most of it has been pretty restrained. In contrast, the Bernard bashing has been a regular hobby round here. "Oh, Bernard's songwriting has been wank for ages", "Bernard ruined Republic", "Raise The Pressure is a pile of shite", "His voice has gotten lame since he learned how to sing properly", "Bernard sucks for thinking Movement sucks", "Never Cry Another Tear proves Bernard has lost his way completely", "Bernard NEEDS Hooky", "Bernard has too much of an ego", etc. etc.
Granted those aren't ver batim quotes, but they're pretty close to capturing the drivel Hooky partisans have posted for ages. For chrissakes, it's a fucking bass guitar with a chorus pedal. It's not the heart and soul of NO, just like Ian wasn't the genius behind Steve's hypnotic rhythms or Bernard's guitar riffs. New Order has been a group effort with a de facto band leader, who, frankly, did a bang up job composing (and singing) some great songs. Their golden years may be behind them, but I think Bernard, Steve, and Gillian can make a handful of good tracks sans Hooky. And still be New Order.
Johnny Giles wrote: Now, why don't you believe the ex bass player has brought it all on his own head?
Because most rational people dont change things without a reason. He wasnt happy in New Order when he used to be happy in New Order. I personally think something as well as himself made him leave New Order. Whatever that something was is partly to blame, whether that something was a singer called Bernard we dont know.
So, I dont think Hooky woke up one day and decided to fuck things up for the fun of it.
BTW, swear if you want, I just surprises me how het up folk get. This isnt the real world, its a band forum. Im off to put the kids to bed then have a Stella. Join me if you want 
Genetic wrote:
Because most rational people dont change things without a reason. He wasnt happy in New Order when he used to be happy in New Order. I personally think something as well as himself made him leave New Order. Whatever that something was is partly to blame, whether that something was a singer called Bernard we dont know.
I walked out of a job recently cos i couldn't stand working for a bunch of c___s anymore. But they carry on working, and I'm not moaning about it, or interested in trying to get back in. Hooky should be happy he'll be getting bigger royalty cheques.
Genetic wrote:
So, I dont think Hooky woke up one day and decided to fuck things up for the fun of it.
Perhaps a giant white rabbit told him to do it in a dream.
Genetic wrote:
BTW, swear if you want, I just surprises me how het up folk get. This isnt the real world, its a band forum. Im off to put the kids to bed then have a Stella. Join me if you want
It may be a forum, but strangely enough everyone is generally real on here, and a lot go to NO or NO-related gigs. We swear a lot in the pub pre-gig too. There are UK gigs coming up. Join us if you want.
JV wrote:
cranelane wrote:
Genetic wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Given Hook's had his lawyers on speed dial over the last 5 years and used that approach to grab the Hac brand for himself (and crucified it), he has set the tone and has noone to blame but himself for the way he's been treated. Hoisted by his own petard I'm afraid.
I dont agree, and thats someone who's been accused of being Pro-Hooky and Anti-Hooky on the same thread on the same day.
Fans like us don't have to be pro or anti any member of the band, it is possible to be pleased that New Order are back but to regret that Hooky isn't involved and also some people here don't like to see Hooky being demonised or seen as some sort of villian when clearly New Order meant as much to him as it did to the others. His ill-tempered comments re the reunion of course played right in the hands of his detractors but maybe folks should give the Hooky bashing a little break now,it's getting tiresome.
Cranelane, I agree in principle that the personal attacks on Hooky have gotten tiresome, but with all the "NO Hooky, No New Order" comments on facebook, I wanted to offer the following perspective.
In my 7 years visiting this forum I hadn't seen any all-out Hooky bashing until the last year or so. And even now I think most of it has been pretty restrained. In contrast, the Bernard bashing has been a regular hobby round here. "Oh, Bernard's songwriting has been wank for ages", "Bernard ruined Republic", "Raise The Pressure is a pile of shite", "His voice has gotten lame since he learned how to sing properly", "Bernard sucks for thinking Movement sucks", "Never Cry Another Tear proves Bernard has lost his way completely", "Bernard NEEDS Hooky", "Bernard has too much of an ego", etc. etc.
Granted those aren't ver batim quotes, but they're pretty close to capturing the drivel Hooky partisans have posted for ages. For chrissakes, it's a fucking bass guitar with a chorus pedal. It's not the heart and soul of NO, just like Ian wasn't the genius behind Steve's hypnotic rhythms or Bernard's guitar riffs. New Order has been a group effort with a de facto band leader, who, frankly, did a bang up job composing (and singing) some great songs. Their golden years may be behind them, but I think Bernard, Steve, and Gillian can make a handful of good tracks sans Hooky. And still be New Order.
I couldn't agree more with you on this. Each to their own, I guess, though perhaps it's time we gave new New Order a chance. I, for one, welcome their reunion sans Peter Hook. After all, New Order have always risen from the ashes of the phoenix, that's innate in them and what I love about them.
Genetic wrote: Im off to put the kids to bed then have a Stella. Join me if you want
You may want to think before asking strangers on a forum if they want to put your kids to bed. Not passing comment Mark's character, just saying...
Big Mouth Julio wrote:
0_o wrote: Except for some outdoor festival shows, which I assume they will do next year... does any band really like playing in large arenas, other than dicks like U2? Does any fan like watching shows in large arenas? Maybe Bernard will tour more if the gigs are more fun, rather than larger.
Really prefer NO indoors. I was at Finsbury Park 02 and it was not really good IMO.
JV wrote: For chrissakes, it's a fucking bass guitar with a chorus pedal.
...and a lot of charisma too.
But the new New Order is also welcome to me. A lot of bands change their line up, c'est la vie...
Genetic wrote: So, I dont think Hooky woke up one day and decided to fuck things up for the fun of it.
Neither do I but perhaps he himself was going through a difficult period around the time of the fallout. Here is a quote from an interview Hooky did in September this year and is perhaps the most revealing set of words yet on the 2006 split:
If you were to take something from this experience what would it be?
You see the problem that I had when the band split up was that I was an alcoholic. Because I was an alcoholic, I had no confidence. I was severely wounded in myself. I had no strength of character and wasn’t able to stand up to Bernard. I wasn’t able to stand up to Steve. I just couldn’t explain myself. It took me a long time to just…find myself. As corny as that sounds. However, when New Order split up I couldn’t explain to anybody why or what the problem was—now I can. It’s just too late isn’t it? But I’m happy now.
The full interview is here so everyone can read the source of that quote (page 2). I think it's very admirable for him to publicly admit he had an addiction problem but how that problem impacted life inside New Order prior to the '06 split none of us really know. We won't know until someone puts out a book which at this rate looks like will be Hooky first.
I think someone else on this forum put it brilliantly a few months ago: the situation is sad, there will be lots of public blood letting, both parties will put out books and somewhere between the two will lie the truth. Sounds about right to me.
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Small venues are the domain of those bands who have fallen from grace and just want to start from the botom again.......or alternatively it could be a way for Bernard and Co to re-connect with their audience in a manner that at least means they could see the whites of each other's eyes (and the fillings in the teeth when everybody opens their gobs to sing along.)
At least they're not The Cure.... doing ten hour long sets and shows so long that sleeping bags are on sale at the merchandise store.
Sleeping bags,should be lethal injections
Loved seeing Freebass at a tiny venue.
New Order have always sounded better in medium venues rather than large/outdoor ones.
I'm not hugely keen to see New Order live without Hooky, doing old songs, but really hope they go on to record new material. Some Gillian vocals would be welcome as well.
Would I have minded if "Twist of Fate" had been released as a "New Order Now" single? Not at all.
Big Mouth Julio wrote: I thank God every single day for not having a boss like Bernard. He's a twat
Your Statement is a little bit stupid, isn't it? How can you say this? You don't know him, especially as an employee. 
If NCAT had been a New order album, we'd've all been moaning about its somewhat pedestrian rock leanings. It's certainly, to me, the least satisfying album Barney has sung on since 1981. Had it been called NooOrdah I'm sure it would've been ranked in my bottom 2 NO LP's. On the other hand, at least I could afford the most recent studio recordings. Hooky's probably planning a Tell-All book called "Power,Corruption & Lies", witha 10" yellow vinyl single of re-recordings of Electronic songs and authentic Hacienda brick for £13,981.
confusion wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: I thank God every single day for not having a boss like Bernard. He's a twat
Your Statement is a little bit stupid, isn't it? How can you say this? You don't know him, especially as an employee.
In three weeks Julio will be standing at the airport, pointing to the sky in feverish expectation of Barney's arrival and some super brown-nosing. He will of course at one point shout 'De plane, boss. I can see de plane'.
Genetic wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: Now, why don't you believe the ex bass player has brought it all on his own head?
Because most rational people dont change things without a reason. He wasnt happy in New Order when he used to be happy in New Order. I personally think something as well as himself made him leave New Order. Whatever that something was is partly to blame, whether that something was a singer called Bernard we dont know.
So, I dont think Hooky woke up one day and decided to fuck things up for the fun of it.
BTW, swear if you want, I just surprises me how het up folk get. This isnt the real world, its a band forum. Im off to put the kids to bed then have a Stella. Join me if you want
Get where you're coming from. My first thought is, just how rational has Hook been over the last few years? He's been very emotional that's for sure. There's a clash with Bernard, he's made that clear. And recently he's expanded the clash to all the band members, his perogative. This isn't that uncommon in bands. But once you get lawyers involved things get nasty and that's the point where an amicable resolution is hard to reach.
This is why I have little sympathy for Hook's situation. It looks like the others have turned the tables on him to get New Order back up and running. And his insensitive bad-mouthing over the last few weeks has certainly hardened my attitude further.
I don't think he just decided to fuck things up either, but there are certain events which may have triggered a step change in his behaviour. Events which were entirely down to him. So overall, I feel he has to take responsibility for the way things have turned out.
Gene, I swear when I'm happy, sad, angry or chirpy. Don't read anything in to it, certainly wasnt directed at you. A quick glance through this thread shows us you have used twatty, cunt and wank - good work sir.
