The Hooky stop being an idiot thread

Boring Being wrote: Why is such a poor thread pinned? It's easy to judge him without knowing the whole story. Both Bernard and Hooky have been doing stupid things, and we still don't even know why they split.

Stupid thread indeed

I dont think this should be a pinned thread either. I agree with a lot of what Brian Hypen said. We need to remember it's about the music. Although I dont agree with most of the guff coming from Hooky in these endless new interviews, I do wonder why everyone has to get so excited. As soon as I see a thread starting with a link to a new Hooky interview I can guess the rest: "How can he say this?" "He's lost the plot" etc etc. Can we please stop reacting to EVERY interview he gives? Since the 80's when Hooky (in)famously rebuffed an overly enthusiastic fan who had written to the NO "fan club" (it made Smash Hits magazine, I forget the wording), it's been clear to me that Hooky and the rest havent worried about being anodyne, polite pop stars. So he's bitter and talks a load of hot air in interviews. Big Deal. The only bit that still interests me in this is his apparent blocking of Lost Sirens. If this thread were about that subject and nothing else then yeah, pin it at the top, as we want to hear the tunes, not the interviews (well I do, and I suspect I'm not alone). The Lost Sirens thread is about the MUSIC, so I don't think -1's comments should be dismissed. Lets just remind Hooky that we want to hear the MUSIC. The rest? Who gives a fuck?

Debaser wrote: I dont think this should be a pinned thread either. I agree with a lot of what Brian Hypen said. We need to remember it's about the music. Although I dont agree with most of the guff coming from Hooky in these endless new interviews, I do wonder why everyone has to get so excited. As soon as I see a thread starting with a link to a new Hooky interview I can guess the rest: "How can he say this?" "He's lost the plot" etc etc. Can we please stop reacting to EVERY interview he gives? Since the 80's when Hooky (in)famously rebuffed an overly enthusiastic fan who had written to the NO "fan club" (it made Smash Hits magazine, I forget the wording), it's been clear to me that Hooky and the rest havent worried about being anodyne, polite pop stars. So he's bitter and talks a load of hot air in interviews. Big Deal. The only bit that still interests me in this is his apparent blocking of Lost Sirens. If this thread were about that subject and nothing else then yeah, pin it at the top, as we want to hear the tunes, not the interviews (well I do, and I suspect I'm not alone). The Lost Sirens thread is about the MUSIC, so I don't think -1's comments should be dismissed. Lets just remind Hooky that we want to hear the MUSIC. The rest? Who gives a fuck?

err looks like you do

For what it's worth, I'm quite ok with it being pinned. This is a discussion forum and this topic is something that merits discussion, like whether or not you agree with its premise, that Hooky is being an idiot. Maybe he's just stirring the pot with a giant wooden spoon and does not care if doing so entails being seen as an idiot or drama queen… obviously I would like to hear Lost Sirens, and I wouldn't mind hearing the audio and video footage of Festival of the Tenth Summer that has apparently surfaced recently, however nobody said it would be easy. It's 26 years since the event, I guess a few more won't make any difference

seals wrote: For what it's worth, I'm quite ok with it being pinned. This is a discussion forum and this topic is something that merits discussion, like whether or not you agree with its premise, that Hooky is being an idiot. Maybe he's just stirring the pot with a giant wooden spoon and does not care if doing so entails being seen as an idiot or drama queen… obviously I would like to hear Lost Sirens, and I wouldn't mind hearing the audio and video footage of Festival of the Tenth Summer that has apparently surfaced recently, however nobody said it would be easy. It's 26 years since the event, I guess a few more won't make any difference

I agree that it's a subject that should be open to discussion, but I can't see the point in it being pinned, it should be allowed to slide away when interest is lost like everything else, I think there are too many pined items, some have not had any posts for a couple of months, and as for the 'new lyrics' being pinned, it's just stupid, no problem posting it, but pinning is wrong.

Debaser wrote: Can we please stop reacting to EVERY interview he gives?

If only. Trouble is in most of them he's incredibly offensive to people that many of us like, some may consider them heroes. If A.N. Other Pop Star started calling our band "dickheads" and "twats" we'd be equally pissed off. Hooky doesnt get a free pass because he used to be in said band.

Yes, of course, its about the music and the music from their collective past will always be fantastic and better than anybody else but, whether you agree or not, Hooky and Hooky alone is pissing some fans off.

I pinned it, mainly because I'm starting to find the whole thing rather amusing now, some of the opinions on here are making me spill tea on my laptop, and of course some of them have a greater degree of validity and know what they're talking about. Of course it's not worthy of being pinned, and therein lies the whole point. The argument is pathetic, the behaviour of former band members is pathetic, and the overreactions of some people on here is also rather crap.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, any of it. Whether this thread is pinned or not will have no bearing on the former New Order bass player's perspective. We're kidding ourselves if we think it will. Now if we could find some more evidence of skullduggery, maybe a recording of Bernard not quite synching his vocals on Sirens, then we might be in business!!

Plus it was saving Jack time, he wouldn't have to scroll through all the threads to find the ones having a pop

Tim wrote: I pinned it, mainly because I'm starting to find the whole thing rather amusing now, some of the opinions on here are making me spill tea on my laptop, and of course some of them have a greater degree of validity and know what they're talking about. Of course it's not worthy of being pinned, and therein lies the whole point. The argument is pathetic, the behaviour of former band members is pathetic, and the overreactions of some people on here is also rather crap.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, any of it. Whether this thread is pinned or not will have no bearing on the former New Order bass player's perspective. We're kidding ourselves if we think it will. Now if we could find some more evidence of skullduggery, maybe a recording of Bernard not quite synching his vocals on Sirens, then we might be in business!!

I don't care whether it's pinned or not, but I love discussion, which is what these forums are for. While I won't call anybody names, I think several people on here have a point. I think we have the freedom to talk about this topic.

Tim wrote: I pinned it, mainly because I'm starting to find the whole thing rather amusing now, some of the opinions on here are making me spill tea on my laptop, and of course some of them have a greater degree of validity and know what they're talking about. Of course it's not worthy of being pinned, and therein lies the whole point. The argument is pathetic, the behaviour of former band members is pathetic, and the overreactions of some people on here is also rather crap.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, any of it. Whether this thread is pinned or not will have no bearing on the former New Order bass player's perspective. We're kidding ourselves if we think it will. Now if we could find some more evidence of skullduggery, maybe a recording of Bernard not quite synching his vocals on Sirens, then we might be in business!!

I'll hold my hand up and say I've been a cunt and said a few stupid things and caused a bit of agro, but for me Hooky was a massive part of the New Order experience, especially live, I wish he would shut up and sort things out with the others and get back where he belongs, if he can do it by April that would be even better! They can even keep chappers so that he can play the low bass while hooky plays the high bass, why not, they kept phil when Gillian returned!

Jed Stephens wrote:

I'll hold my hand up and say I've been a cunt and said a few stupid things and caused a bit of agro, but for me Hooky was a massive part of the New Order experience, especially live, I wish he would shut up and sort things out with the others and get back where he belongs, if he can do it by April that would be even better! They can even keep chappers so that he can play the low bass while hooky plays the high bass, why not, they kept phil when Gillian returned!

Now come ON - having Hooky back with the gang swinging his chopper WHILST STILL KEEPING CHAPPERS ON SECOND BASS DUTIES TOO???

What da frig do you think this is? Turning Bad New Lieutenant Order into fricking Freebass as well???

Chuffin' heck, you'll be requesting they bring back Mani and Rourkey as well next!

I don't think that there is the slightest chance that Hook,Gilbert,Morris & Sumner will ever appear on a stage together again but to place the entire blame one of those four people for that fact seems just too simplistic but that seems to be how the majority here see it.

and we're back to 'normalcy'..

good enough to read again as a normal thread.

later -1

cranelane wrote: I don't think that there is the slightest chance that Hook,Gilbert,Morris & Sumner will ever appear on a stage together again but to place the entire blame one of those four people for that fact seems just too simplistic but that seems to be how the majority here see it.

Barney made his fair share of sarcastic Hooky comments at the Melbourne show, which didn't go down that well. Majority of the people who were there, are not into the New Order politics.

Bernard, Steve, and Hooky, wrote, played, collaborated on 'Sirens' and made shared decisions. Isn't it only fair that this remains the case regarding 'Lost Sirens', this is normal procedure you know!

Stop blaming Hooky for it not coming out, someone go and ask Barney why it isn't coming out, what are the reasons?

Van Halen hated David Lee Roth and visa versa, they reformed this year after a huge amount of time. It's nothing new in the rock World, who knows. Yoy can never say never, but I doubt they will ever play together on stage again.

condemnation wrote:

Barney made his fair share of sarcastic Hooky comments at the Melbourne show, which didn't go down that well. Majority of the people who were there, are not into the New Order politics.

Maybe he was joking in his own way? He's got dry humour, as we all know. By the way I'm not blaming anybody for the situation.

NotAMod wrote:

condemnation wrote: Stop blaming Hooky for it not coming out, someone go and ask Barney why it isn't coming out, what are the reasons?

Er, why is it Sumner's responsibility to outline why Hook may have exercised his veto? They're clearly not friends and from the sounds of things communicate solely via legal representation nowadays. To expect Bernard to say to a fan "Well, Hooky did it cos of x, y or z" with an impending court threat looming is not only unrealistic but a bit ludicrous.

Realistically, Hook was doing interviews up until mid-November saying he was content "Lost Sirens" was coming out so he could draw a line under New Order. So there was clearly a period up until December when he was happy for the record to come out under the negotiated terms as they stood at that particular moment in time.

As johnny james alluded to earlier in the thread I personally think "Lost Sirens" not coming out has little to do with "Lost Sirens" per se, the veto is probably being used to influence the outcome of another segment of negotiation. I'm not making any judgement on that because a) I don't know what it is and b) not for me to say anyway. But I think it would be seriously naive to think otherwise because er, they're heading for court.

Meanwhile a big number of fans are going "please give us the record, we'll pay" and no record is forthcoming... Everyone's losing out at the moment; no new music for the fans and no new revenue from said music for the band (Hook included)

People want to know why it's not coming out, and everyone is blaming Hooky because he put a stop to it. Sumner would just say something like "that fucking twat has put a stop to it" and that's it. But why? It's not ludicrous. You are wanting it to be a daytime TV soap opera scenario, he did want it to come out, and it was supposed to draw a line in the sand.

Most people on this forum think 'WFTSC" is crap, I like it a lot and was looking forward to hearing these unreleased tracks.

NotAMod wrote:

condemnation wrote: People want to know why it's not coming out, and everyone is blaming Hooky because he put a stop to it. Sumner would just say something like "that fucking twat has put a stop to it" and that's it.

Why doesn't the person who stopped it explain it then? He allegedly exercised the veto and by now it's well known he did. If that were libellous or incorrect surely it would have been made known by now? I still don't get your point that it is somehow the responsibility of the remainder of the band to ultimately explain his actions. It's like expecting Hooky to justify what Gillian chooses to do; I wouldn't expect him to nor would he.

condemnation wrote: But why? It's not ludicrous. You are wanting it to be a daytime TV soap opera scenario, he did want it to come out, and it was supposed to draw a line in the sand.

As Hook himself announced last week court proceedings are about to begin so it's sadly about as far away from soap opera as it could get. Any shrewd lawyer advising either the Hook or New Order Now camps will most likely have told their clients to keep their mouths shut as they're about to enter serious and expensive legal territory. As a result, Hook's (so far) silent over this Lost Sirens veto but your assertion that Bernard should be openly discussing why a former bandmate he's about to be taken to court by is making decisions is... ludicrous. Come on mate, it clearly is. Or it is in my world anyway from my experience of how lawyers operate.

condemnation wrote: Most people on this forum think 'WFTSC" is crap, I like it a lot and was looking forward to hearing these unreleased tracks.

I agree with you. I like WFTSC a lot, it's not my favourite NO album but by no means crap. I really want to hear Lost Sirens and I'm willing to pay for it.

Fuck's sake, I'll even stretch to £30 at this rate.

So that's right, no-one is going to openly say blah blah, when there is a pending court case. So, it goes back to my point that Hook may have very valid reasons for it not coming out, if so, Sumner is not going to say anything other than "he's a twat".

We are not going to get anywhere here, mean while, unless it's resolved, it won't be released, which is not what everyone wants as far as I'm aware.

cranelane wrote: I don't think that there is the slightest chance that Hook,Gilbert,Morris & Sumner will ever appear on a stage together again but to place the entire blame one of those four people for that fact seems just too simplistic but that seems to be how the majority here see it.

I think an awful lot of people on here understand that the blame for the original tensions and subsequent 'split' is not just down to one person... I would certainly be surprised if Barney had been a total angel in all this... Partisan attitudes do however seem to come from how the various parties have conducted themselves in dealing with things... A constant stream of threats, insults, attempts at rewriting history, petty gestures vs. initial silence and a gradual, but relatively diplomatic approach... I guess it's no surprise people are taking sides...

Snorri xxx

condemnation wrote:

cranelane wrote: I don't think that there is the slightest chance that Hook,Gilbert,Morris & Sumner will ever appear on a stage together again but to place the entire blame one of those four people for that fact seems just too simplistic but that seems to be how the majority here see it.

Barney made his fair share of sarcastic Hooky comments at the Melbourne show, which didn't go down that well. Majority of the people who were there, are not into the New Order politics.

With the threat of court action looming, and several months of Hooky's interviews/sounding off, is it really a surprise that Barney wants to have a pop back? The band had kept a dignified silence for quite a while, now they're playing live again, it's inevitable that some comment will be made... If people aren't into NO politics, does it matter if Barney makes a few snide remarks? It is, after all, all about the music...

Snorri xxx

Regarding the legal case Hooky is taking,I presume it is to have the company set up last April and which became New Order Limited on September 7 2011 which consists of the other 3 original NO members and another person as directors wound up as the setting up of that company is legally a form of oppression against him or is it simply that he wants them not to be allowed to tour using the name New Order?

cranelane wrote: Regarding the legal case Hooky is taking,I presume it is to have the company set up last April called New Order Limited which consists of the other 3 original NO members and another person as directors wound up as the setting up of that company is legally a form of oppression against him or is it simply that he wants them not to be allowed to tour using the name New Order?

I have no idea. I don't know a lot about companies, or companies in the UK, but for Hooky to leave the band yet (if this is the case) to want to stay in the New Order company is a bit having it both ways, don't you think? And I don't think this new 'New Order Ltd' can stop him from getting royalties. Not being in the band, and not being in the band's legal 'company' doesn't stop you from getting performance royalties/songwriting royalties, I think. Phil was involved (to some extent) in the songwriting process of WFTSC, yet even Phil is not listed in the company. But I presume Phil gets royalties (even if it's much less than the others) from WFTSC.

If anyone knows more about this issue, please correct me or add info.

condemnation wrote: Stop blaming Hooky for it not coming out, someone go and ask Barney why it isn't coming out, what are the reasons?

Money... It's all about money...

Fixed quote! :p

Well, I can understand one thing from the past that will work for Hooky as an excuse for leaving New Order in the past, but that wouldn't make much sense nowadays I'm afraid.

It's about Republic. There are only a couple of tracks that have his bass in it! Regret was the only 'original New Order sound' as one of the singles, but the New Order Mix (which was originally considered for the album) hasn't. I would be very upset it that happened to me if I was the bass player. Ofcourse they did a lot of live performances for that tour in which the bass played a major role in it, but the album is the one that stays in the ears of most listeners

It messes with the mind.

Sometimes I think you're doing with Hooky the same thing that Judas did with Christ! Betrayers

Get a life!

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Sometimes I think you're doing with Hooky the same thing that Judas did with Christ! Betrayers

Get a life!

Eh?